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Post by Michael O'Brien on Jul 16, 2015 13:34:08 GMT
Once again you have the opportunity to fine tune your favourite finalists and choose your winner.
Please remember that you can also post comments explaining why you vote the way you do or discuss the merits or problems with the current finalists.
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Post by Milo on Jul 16, 2015 17:40:06 GMT
I go for toys !
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Post by spickering on Jul 16, 2015 22:44:00 GMT
I would love to have all three. A female character in a martial pose means Arwen just gets her nose ahead for me.
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Post by Gildor on Jul 17, 2015 15:05:57 GMT
as much as I'd enjoy seeing an elven lady in martial pose, I simply can't vote not even caution an Arwen in a hunt. I know it has a lot of supporters but may I remind here that Mithril is supposed to be at least true to the books, if not in design at least in character roles? Arwen is an adventurer, hunting or whatever ONLY in Peter Jackson movies. She is supposed to be a lovely "housewife" without any adventuring or martial skills. She may have magic, or seducing advantages to lure ennemies, the same way her ancestor Luthien did for Melkor, but like Luthier, she would not even know how to handle a sword.... Well I'd like to say that's my point of view.... but it's not, it's how JRR Tolkien meant Arwen to be.... I don't like to proceed this way, but I may thus switch my vote in the end if it can make a Hunting Arwen loose  Unless it is renamed another way and it's not "Arwen"... (NB : this is nothing personal) |
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Post by barliman on Jul 17, 2015 15:38:22 GMT
Likewise, Master Elf!
It always surprises me that non-canon suggestions are ever raised in the first place (I won't even mention "old woman feeding chickens"....ah, I just did), but seeing Chris' valuable time being expended on such projects always saddens me. This is just my personal opinion, of course, and I don't expect people to agree with it. You should all know it by now anyway - I've said it often enough!
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Post by Luthien Tinuviel on Jul 17, 2015 20:58:41 GMT
Arwen is sibling of Galadriel and I envisage she inherits character trait from her grand-mother. It’s a simplistic machoism point of view to imagine Arwen as a house maiden never wandering woods during more than 3000 years )
Arwen hunting is far more realistic than Galadriel mounted in full armour.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 6:44:27 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with Arwen hunting and do not see any reason it is not true to the books. I agree with luthien4tinuvielle on this.
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Post by Gildor on Jul 18, 2015 8:01:03 GMT
it's not machoism luthien, it's fact from the books and Tolkien letters. we may or may not like it and I personnaly don't like how Tolkien depicts most female characters in his books as feeble characters. It's proper to Elves, Human race have women warriors, but Elven race has not, at least when it comes to high birth... (read letter 43 of Tolkien Letters about how Tolkien depicts how women should behave in this "chivalry" environment)
Don't take me wrong, I don't like that concept, but it is a FACT from JRRT's OWN writing in his letters and books
Galadriel NEVER wielded a sword either.... Aredhel during the Silmarillion may be the only one to have wielded a bow... at most.
you may WANT or envisage things that are fine, but they are not canon and quite the opposite : they are wrong to what Tolkien wanted them to be...
That's actually one of the things I criticize about Tolkien and why I prefer other authors about this concept of women, but nevertheless I respect it and would not want it
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Post by Thingol on Jul 18, 2015 8:35:52 GMT
I'm completely agree with Gildor in this case..... Arwen in hunting is just.... Arwen in hunting. I'm always on side of Tolkien interpretation in CT sculpting... and here is one main question... Arwen in hunting - what or who.... orcs or animals.... did elves serve meat on their meals, maybe yes... or just "green food" fruits, mushrooms and lembas bread... Arwen's hunting buffalo or butterflies net for insects... or in this case this suggestion was inspired with Tauriel character.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 16:14:14 GMT
Gildor why so preachy and what's with the shouting? People are entitled to they own opinions!
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Post by Luthien Tinuviel on Jul 18, 2015 16:30:41 GMT
"..Mithril is supposed to be at least true to the books.."
If you want to keep mithrils fitting to Tolkien cannon and the books, just throw half your collection away :-)
Mithril were designed at the very beginning as companion to MERP products which are not "Tolkien cannon" either
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Post by barliman on Jul 18, 2015 16:54:33 GMT
You are right of course. But who of us ever had a chance to vote on those? No one, of course, so the comparison is invalid. The difference today, with MS figures, is that we do have a chance to vote on them, and therefore have a chance to prevent non-canon figures from being added to the list.
As Master Quendil has said, people are entitled to their opinion....including the people who don't like such figures as this Arwen suggestion.
If we all liked the same things it would be a very boring world!
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Post by Gildor on Jul 18, 2015 17:01:26 GMT
I really think you don't need to tell me what Mithril was designed at the very beginning... And I also played MERP and enjoy playing MECCG too and I am fine with everything that has been extended by MERP...
Arwen being a hunter or warrior is not one of them... she is no hunter, even in MERP... (actually she is a lvl 15 bard, as per "MERP - House of Elrond" module) and her only known weapon would be a holy rapier with a spell of sleep)
if Mithril is true to Tolkien AND/OR MERP.... they can't do it.
Well if need be I'll simply ask Chris about what he thinks about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 17:03:27 GMT
It's when people appear to be trying to force their opinions on everyone else that causes problems. There are many people that buy the MS range but it feels like just a few who feel it should be run how they want it to be. It makes me for one not want to suggest ideas or in fact bother with the MS range at all and I know I am not the only one.
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Post by Gildor on Jul 18, 2015 17:06:33 GMT
Well Quendil, do as you see fit, I have not suggested anything of late because I don't think it's worth defending....
I can quote you some people who decided to leave the Gold Fellowship though they were here for a very long time, (long before the GF exists ) because suggestions have gone totally awry and they did not want to take part in such a "massacre" of the tolkien world... That's not "yet" my point of view and I think everybody is entitled to his opinion .... and someone's opinion CAN be to be against someone else's opinion, that's perfectly democratic...
I won't go against a winning suggestion, but I found it to be my duty to warn people that if they vote for it, it is clearly not canon and against Tolkien's vision.... If all who voted for "arwen hunting" do it knowlingly, that's fine....
In the end, the votes rule the day...
Maybe it's time for Mithril to become more generalist and not be the last brand to focus on Tolkien/MERP authenticity...
PS : as members of the Gold Fellowship we are entitled to defend debate, promote or demote ideas in order for the votes to be something active and "strong", not a passive thing. I claim the right to be able to defend my ideas, as part of this fellowship, wether it is to defend, or disapprove suggestions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 17:21:52 GMT
Your cannon is going on what you have read and interpret, did you know him and have conversations about this? No you did not. Expressing an opinion is one thing but the way you have reacted to people not agreeing with you is disgraceful. You come across as this is your own personal enterprise which its is not. And with all the CAPS you come across as over opinionated and rude. That is all I have to say so good luck with it running the way you want if to.
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Post by Gildor on Jul 18, 2015 17:28:27 GMT
my canon is going on what I have read in the text yes, for instance, Tolkien Letters where he specifically explains his vision on women... this debate is not a young one  it has been around for decades and decades. The place of women in Tolkien universe was largely controversed and criticized... As I said, I do not adhere to his ideas, but I respect them. If I want (sexy or not) female warriors or hunters I buy figurines from other brands, from other fantasy worlds, that's all Then using caps is not to shout it's to emphasize. I'm not reacting at peoples I'm reacting at ideas, and I said it at first it has strictly nothing personal. People, and ideas are two different things Mithril is in no way my enterprise, I would never manage it the way it has been managed for the past 10 years But, sorry if I look overly fierce saying that, my personal interest and involvment in mithril wellfare and promotion has not been matched by many... I know I have detractors and you can't please everybody, but maybe I speak mostly out of passion, and that seems as if I was howling at people... that's not the case |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 17:31:51 GMT
Unfortunately caps is shouting and you may not mean to sound fierce but you do and it does not really do mithril any favours. After all they are only toys
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Post by Axel on Jul 19, 2015 6:27:44 GMT
I have no problems with Arwen as hunter - even Luthien did the odd adventure outside, like fetching the Silmaril from Morgoths crown - and living for millenia can become quite boring without variety. Chances are that she can hunt better then most human hunters.
Anyway. I voted for the dwarven merchant. I assume we will not see many toys with him, unless he is made with his merchendize on display, but the shards of Narsil will be likely packed away, too. But you can never have too many dwarves, and a generic elven huntress may smooth over the objections made here.
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Post by Luthien Tinuviel on Jul 19, 2015 10:42:44 GMT
Well if need be I'll simply ask Chris about what he thinks about that. Is it not already done, I understood Chris valid all ideas BEFORE the first round? |
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Post by Gildor on Jul 19, 2015 14:17:07 GMT
remove or accept ideas from a list is not the same thing as asking someone what he thinks on a given idea. Indeed if he aknowledged it it means he considers it fit for the mithril range
it's then up to us GF members either to promote a suggestion or express our reserves, which I did.
I won't carry on debating (and using caps as it seems to mean shouting everytime, I'll use bold or underline).
Well if it wins, it won't be the first time the GF range has "curiosities", certainly won't be the last either...
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Post by ddaines on Jul 19, 2015 22:42:23 GMT
Well the Spirit of Morgoth is at play here, Elf fighting Elf, Morgoth must be turning in his chains in Mandos' Halls  . I personally do not see Arwen as a hunter type as I envisage her more of a Lady of Rivendell rather than a woodland elf maiden helping the boys get some meat for the next king's feast. That aside, the GF is an opportunity for each of us to submit an idea that we would like to see produced in miniature and if that suggestion wins regardless of the personal likes and dislikes of others then so be it. The much maligned Woman feeding chickens while an expensive non-canon subject, is in fact an ideal addition to a small scene I am working on so I do try to keep an open mind on subjects that are released and how I can use them for what I want to use them for. Anyhow, stop squabbling my good elves, life is too short for us mortals  |
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Post by Michael O'Brien on Jul 21, 2015 13:59:52 GMT
Well if need be I'll simply ask Chris about what he thinks about that. Is it not already done, I understood Chris valid all ideas BEFORE the first round? Chris does check the list before the vote starts to see if he can (a) sculpt it and (b) it matches our license. Its not a guarantee but as yet I don't think we have had to pull an idea because of copyright problems. |
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Post by Mornedhel on Jul 21, 2015 15:08:04 GMT
Poor Ohtar is a collateral victim of the battle between Santa Claus and Xena :-(
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Post by Theobald on Jul 29, 2015 22:41:12 GMT
Alas, I'm afraid you're right, Mornedhel.
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Post by barliman on Jul 30, 2015 7:59:22 GMT
Very droll, Master Mormedhel - and also very accurate, I suspect!
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Post by twrich on Aug 4, 2015 4:26:18 GMT
Hey David, erudite, and spot on, as usual. Yeah, I know this is old conversation. I was sleeping over in the corner |
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Post by barliman on Aug 4, 2015 7:25:24 GMT
Interesting that the balance of votes has changed since the poll officially ended/locked - not the total, but the spread of the votes. I can never understand how that's possible.
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Post by Gildor on Aug 4, 2015 10:32:28 GMT
after the poll is locked?? well I did not even switch my own vote as I saw it was not necessary actually so I plead not guilty, I had voted for Ohtar and my vote is still, after the lock, for Ohtar.
maybe some people switched their vote (that is always possible until the end) just before the poll locks?
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Post by barliman on Aug 4, 2015 11:35:16 GMT
Nope, I looked at the poll after it had been locked, and these figures aren't the same as they were. Arwen was still 11, but I'm pretty sure the Dwarf was 13 and Ohtar was 6.
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Unless it is renamed another way and it's not "Arwen"...
it has been around for decades and decades. The place of women in Tolkien universe was largely controversed and criticized...
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