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Post by ddaines on Jul 23, 2007 18:10:27 GMT
It's been a bit quiet on here lately so back onto the matter of the releases that can't be released. Can they be packaged as groups of three and titled Collector's Vignettes, perhaps a new base (like for the Salute figures after the Dark Dork's intervention) could be produced that allows the figures original base to just slot in (or discarded - Mithril could offer a recycling scheme if the base is not undercoated - we return it with the next order and they re-use it !), and voila, all that valuable time the Chris and Mithril have invested in Easterlings, Corsairs etc. Can no be released as a non-wargaming vignette series!!! Wishful thinking?
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Post by Michael O'Brien on Jul 24, 2007 9:22:44 GMT
It's been a bit quiet on here lately so back onto the matter of the releases that can't be released. Can they be packaged as groups of three and titled Collector's Vignettes, perhaps a new base (like for the Salute figures after the Dark Dork's intervention) could be produced that allows the figures original base to just slot in (or discarded - Mithril could offer a recycling scheme if the base is not undercoated - we return it with the next order and they re-use it !), and voila, all that valuable time the Chris and Mithril have invested in Easterlings, Corsairs etc. Can no be released as a non-wargaming vignette series!!! Wishful thinking? Believe me I have mentioned the idea of different bases and will continue to see how to avoid the all seeing eye of 'the company that must not be named (for legal reasons)'
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Post by estel on Aug 24, 2007 7:18:33 GMT
It's been a bit quiet on here lately so back onto the matter of the releases that can't be released. Can they be packaged as groups of three and titled Collector's Vignettes, perhaps a new base (like for the Salute figures after the Dark Dork's intervention) could be produced that allows the figures original base to just slot in (or discarded - Mithril could offer a recycling scheme if the base is not undercoated - we return it with the next order and they re-use it !), and voila, all that valuable time the Chris and Mithril have invested in Easterlings, Corsairs etc. Can no be released as a non-wargaming vignette series!!! Wishful thinking? Believe me I have mentioned the idea of different bases and will continue to see how to avoid the all seeing eye of 'the company that must not be named (for legal reasons)' Dear Michael, it is bad news and makes me sad, that there are such problems with the release of the easterlings and corsairs. Is there any chance, that one day we can buy easterlings from Mithril? The change of the bases or the "bases-argument" must be good to show, that your figures are not made for a specific wargaming context. I remember the 80's, when there were lots of lead figure companies, just producing and no one thought of killing each other via law, only via market competition: the best figure company will survive. It is interesting, that Black Tree design is selling their old Lord of the Realms range (formerly LOTR). Maybe **wants to be monopolist? But as a market rule: The customers decide, who will survive and who not: ** likes producing 'industrial' figures in a bad quality and in plastic (UAAHH!), while MITHRIL does high quality products in small quantities. Let ** be for the masses, and Mithril for the elite! As Imrahil is true to Gondor, I will be true to MITHRIL! Namarie ESTEL
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Post by Gildor on Aug 24, 2007 7:26:23 GMT
Could somebody direct me to this base argument problem or dilemna? I am hearing about this release issue only in this topic but I have not seen any info elsewhere? what is it all about?
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Post by estel on Aug 24, 2007 8:58:36 GMT
Could somebody direct me to this base argument problem or dilemna? I am hearing about this release issue only in this topic but I have not seen any info elsewhere? what is it all about? Hello Gildor, the "bases"- dilemma is easy to explain. A "base" is called the "platform" where a lead figure is standing on. A "slotta-base" is a plastic base, while a "pre-slotta base" is the "platform" Mithril uses (a square flat piece of pewter). Why "slotta"? Because the figures have a piece of lead bar under their feet, which is to stick into the slot of the plastic piece called base. I can remember the name "slotter base" in German wargame- Slang. In wargames like those of that other figure company in U.K. there are used plastic bases (round or square) for gaming. As you have to measure ranges (e.g. how far can a miniature move or shot with a bow) and to show, that two figures (e.g. an Orc and a Gondor warrior) are in hand to hand combat/struggle, the two figures are placed "base-to base". So where is the dilemma? The dilemma is, that Mithril does not produce figures with bases which can be used easily for wargaming purposes- the form of that bases is just impractical. Other pewter figure companies do have this "slotta" base system onto their figures and so they are easily identified as "wargaming stuff". If Mithril is criticised, because they have no license to produce "wargaming stuff" based on LOTR, Mithril can reason, that they do not produce wargaming stuff, as their figure-bases are not compatible with the wargaming- necessity of using bases of special form. In the LOTR wargaming system for example there are used ROUND bases and Mithril has no round bases. In a "few" words, that is the "bases-dilemma", something for lawyers, judges and other "talking" folk. Hope this will help you understanding the tricky thing with that bases. P.S.: Some collectors like me like to put their Mithril figures onto plastic square bases to give the figures a more uniform bases- look and to have more space to give the figures some scenic base. NAMARIE ESTEL
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Post by Gildor on Aug 24, 2007 9:12:18 GMT
well I knew about these different kinds of bases.. and actually one of the reasons I prefer Mithril figurines is because they have a "pre-slotta base" which is sometimes even decorated with small rocks etc... I have never liked slotta bases, as I am a collector painter and not at all a wargamer. Now I can understand that's annoying for wargamers who love Mithril but still where is the legal issue? Since, actually, Mithril does not use slotta base, they have an argument to show lawyers that their figurines are not "designed" for wargaming and thus there is no concurence (if that's the problem) with GW... so why should there be a problem in releasing new figurines? unless Mithril had intended to change its format to "slotta base" which , by the way would ruin one of my pleasure in mithril...
As for putting mithril on plastic uniform bases, why not... you can still do it, ddaines uses this technique often for his diorama... as for "collecting" purpose, doing just that ruins the value of the figurine... as it would be considered a "broken" figurine.
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Post by estel on Aug 24, 2007 9:21:46 GMT
Dear Gildor, it may sound stupid as I put my Mithril figures onto square bases, but me too prefers MITHRIL because of the base format (and the great desgin and the undercoat and the quality and because I like the Elves and Orcs and men and...). I do not often use Mithril for wargaming, as I have no time any more for wargames, but putting Mithril onto square bases gives the chance to wargame or for small dioramas like ddaines . Maybe we should ask "the other figure company" why they are so stupid . Mithril will never (or even can) produce such high quantities of figures like ** does, so no danger for that English pewter imperialists. (Yes, my precious, we curse them...) KRGDS Namarie ESTEL
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Post by Gildor on Aug 24, 2007 11:34:42 GMT
still my point is : where was it said or heard that these... guys... created problems and were blocking the releases of future mithril regulars? that was my main question. Apparently some people know something that is not public or that I haven't seen posted anywhere saying that there was currently an "issue" that blocks the release of future mithril.... I can understand that this other company may be mad with mithril or anything, they should franckly shut their mouths up as Mithril was making figurines based on LoTR before most of their sculptors, and directors, even cared to read the LoTR entirely...
but has the issue gone to court? tribunal? Tolkien enterprise licensing issue? Tolkien estate veto issue?
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Post by aelfwine on Aug 24, 2007 14:22:00 GMT
I'm rather partial to washers myself, (thanks Hammershield!) which combine the gaming usefulness of the round base, but has extra stability, and you can go a bit wilder with the decoration. Besides, I tent to mutilate all my mithrils in some fashion, which I consider to do doing my bit for the collectors (each figure I buy, debase, convert and paint is one less figure about, thus increasing rarity, a bit ) Still, the Other Company issue is highly irksome. I'd love to see some more M series miniatures. Gavin
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Post by Gildor on Aug 24, 2007 14:38:28 GMT
I must be dumb or something else... but still to this date I have still not understoof why there can't be more M series miniatures. I have seen or heard no announcement of special problem regarding any release matter .. did I miss something?
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Post by Wendy on Aug 25, 2007 3:20:10 GMT
It seems that Mithril received a cease and desist as regards the release of both the Easterlings and the Corsairs from (presumably) Tolkien Enterprises and presumably because of a complaint, from the company that shall remain nameless (CTSRN), that Mithril was selling wargaming minis outside the scope of its license.
I think it is a silly complaint as Mithril really does not have any control over exactly what a person does or does not do with figures bought from Mithril and it should not matter how they are packaged. Now, if Mithril switched to plastic and offered huge amounts of figures, that might be a legitimate complaint. Still, one can't wargame without rules. If Mithril has no official rules, I don't consider them wargaming figs.
Frankly, rather than the CTSRN protecting it's marketshare, I daresay they are hurting their marketshare as there are some of us not happy with that company over their tantrum and as a result will not be buying any figures from them.
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Post by Gildor on Aug 25, 2007 15:17:57 GMT
well thank you wendy for this information, this is the information I was lacking... Now I do hope that this issue will be solved one way or another soon, Mithril is in its right and the offender (the CTSRN lol) would any way loose before a court on this case. that is blackmail of course since, if Mithril does not agree to desist in front of Tolkien Enterprise, since the CTSRN has a good friendship with them... TE would simply, I assume, remove the license for Tolkien products granted to Mithril...
A pity... franckly,.... no, I daresay it's a pityful behavior from them....
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Post by ddaines on Aug 25, 2007 18:36:19 GMT
The 'bases' I referred to in the post that was answered by Michael was really a 'clutching at straws' idea for a new specially produced base that would allow the figures to 'slot into' or be placed on to try and disguise the fact that the figures were stand alone figures and perhaps be a way around getting the figures released(does that make sense!?).
Personally I was not thinking along the lines of the Slotta versus Mithril style bases (and used by other companies), and I'm not sure how relevant the issue is as its not my area of interest.
The thought was that if the figures were released as such depending how the 'law' was interpreted they would not have appeared to have been individual figures released for the purpose of W :ogaming.
As Michael has said, he has suggested various base options and I guess we shall have to sit back and wait and see what happens.
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Post by Gildor on Aug 26, 2007 8:31:24 GMT
well the base (that required fixing) used for the LR series would somehow prevent the idea that it is for wargaming at all... these are both rectangular and round in the center (the same used for the LT series but in the LT, the base was part of the figurine, in LR it was separate)
Could that be used? There is no way this base could be used for wargaming as it is quite impossible to calculate "precise" distance from a figurine to the other depending on the angle. (round in front and back, elongated and square in corners...)
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Post by Axel on Sept 13, 2007 21:37:31 GMT
I wonder how [the unnamed company] gets away with releasing collectors miniatures like "Gandalf on a wagon", invisible Bilbos or "Gimli sitting on an Uruk", who are, well, useless for tabletop gaming, while Mithril is not allowed to release military characters.
Perhaps a limited run of only one or two-thousand will make clear that these are not aimed at the general wargaming community (who needs many more).
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Post by estel on Sept 15, 2007 14:35:27 GMT
I wonder how [the unnamed company] gets away with releasing collectors miniatures like "Gandalf on a wagon", invisible Bilbos or "Gimli sitting on an Uruk", who are, well, useless for tabletop gaming, while Mithril is not allowed to release military characters. Perhaps a limited run of only one or two-thousand will make clear that these are not aimed at the general wargaming community (who needs many more). Hello Axel, you are absolutely right, that is exactly what I am thinking (maybe Gimli sitting on Uruk-Hai is morale lowering for the dark ones . But it seems, that MITHRIl has won, just like David against Goliath and we will see some "military" figures released next: Easterlings and Corsairs ;D , which is absolutely cool!! So go Home unnamed company, be cursed and get wiser next time! Namarie Estel
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