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Post by Michael O'Brien on Oct 22, 2010 11:11:08 GMT
There are 3 finalists but there are a lot of undecided votes to sway the result. Its up to the finalists to encourage the swing votes to guarantee victory and have their idea part of Mithril history.
This vote ends on the 28th.
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Post by fulvio on Oct 22, 2010 15:05:07 GMT
My vote is for the Warg, the only miniature with some use in RPG or Miniature Battles.
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Post by Theobald on Oct 22, 2010 16:35:09 GMT
As always I will not comment on my vote.
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Post by bombadil1963 on Oct 22, 2010 18:19:55 GMT
Hi everybody, ciao Fulvio,
interesting that you find only wargs being useful for rpg . . . Don´t you think that, for example, Guthlaf maybe missing in a Pelennor-Fields-Diorama for somebody else in our fellowship? Man! I guessed you to be more creative and pluralistic . . . Please, keep suggesting! News thoughts are made of gold. I do hope . . .
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Post by ddaines on Oct 22, 2010 20:23:47 GMT
Ride to honour and great deeds Guthlaf
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Post by Thingol on Oct 22, 2010 20:29:31 GMT
Not for another wolf please..... if GF MS suggestions are useful for RPG figures than it better to forget this voting. All will become pointless...
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Post by twrich on Oct 23, 2010 0:35:29 GMT
I have no problem with a Warg Leader, although I think it would be hard when the latest release by C Tubb is a wolf-rider. Also, I have suggested (like others before me) Hirgon with the Red Arrow for the last couple months, but due to computer problems didn't really have time to suggest him this month (very sad as I try to make a point of suggesting a figure). Perhaps Guthlaf picked up a few old Hirgon votes?
I will purchase any of these three, but despite the compelling arguments of Grond, I think it would be interesting to have a pose of Guthlaf, standard bearer to King Theoden, before he mounts his horse to ride in battle. Bombadil is correct, this pose would make an excellent piece to a diorama.
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 23, 2010 1:51:50 GMT
Hi everybody, ciao Fulvio, interesting that you find only wargs being useful for rpg . . . Don´t you think that, for example, Guthlaf maybe missing in a Pelennor-Fields-Diorama for somebody else in our fellowship? Man! I guessed you to be more creative and pluralistic . . . Please, keep suggesting! News thoughts are made of gold. I do hope . . . First of all, let me say again that Guthlaf is a fine idea. There is nothing negative to say about him, and I salute him for his first round victory. I also admit that I lied about something earlier: I LOVE A CLOSE RACE! Secondly, let's not be too harsh on the comments made by other members, especially the relatively new ones. The good fulvio simply meant that a Warg would be very useful to him in a RPG setting. This is his personal feelings on the matter, and I think it comes straight from the heart. You know other members submit comments that are just as short and sweet. For instance, Thingol and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum. We obviously don't agree on much, but I admire the fact that he is blunt and to the point. At least you know where you stand with strong members like him. I'm still not sure what happened to all the other Gold Members. Hundreds are absent. I guess most have become disenchanted with the entire process. Likely, they felt put-down, shot down, or, like the Dead Men of Dunharrow, they simply dried up and blew away. God knows I tried to resurrect them. Perhaps they're nothing more than names on a website after all. I must confess something else: I thought the last round was the final battle. Now it appears as though the mighty apex predator has been resurrected! Perhaps this time the Wargs will roam freely across the lands of Rohan!
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Post by hsf62 on Oct 23, 2010 2:35:41 GMT
G...
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Post by fulvio on Oct 23, 2010 14:40:30 GMT
Bombadil1963 say: "interesting that you find only wargs being useful for rpg . . . Don´t you think that, for example, Guthlaf maybe missing in a Pelennor-Fields-Diorama for somebody else in our fellowship? "
The proposed Guthlaf has a saddle in his hands and a banner on his back. A caracter "moving" in a RPG environ rarely carry a saddle instead of a sword in his hands. A similar model is only suitable for a static diorama, not for RPG use, unless You produce a model "in action" maybe with the saddle on his back.
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 23, 2010 20:31:40 GMT
I had to go back and read David’s description again. I thought we were talking about a standard-bearer on foot with banner raised high; however, I see that Guthlaf is indeed holding his saddle with both hands, and the banner of Rohan is wrapped around his shoulder. The pole for the flag is inserted through his arms, as he is leaning back. Why he doesn’t plant the pole in the ground first, prior to hoisting his saddle onto his horse, is curious in itself. I imagine the pole will either smack him or the horse, as he throws the saddle. Regardless, the image suggests a figure who is burdened with the task of getting to his horse with arms quite full. A unique pose, but it does seem better suited for a diorama, which would include a standing horse with saddle blanket already in place.
I never really considered the various applications of miniatures in RPGs vs. dioramas. So, fulvio makes a very good point. Well done!
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Post by Gildor on Oct 24, 2010 12:25:16 GMT
I know I won't get many support and could even been smitten, but I prefer to be honest.... the suggestion I like most here is Taranon-Falastur... But I am a bit fed up about wargs (being mounted or not)... so I will cast my vote to Guthlaf (which I also like, but a bit less than Falastur) in order to - if possible - not see "yet another" wolf/warg-related figurine...
That's my point of view.... Some will say "if I am not content with a wolf I am not forced to buy it"... I am a collector and as such I will buy whatever is released no matter if it pleases me or not.... so it is my duty to make it so that I try to be pleased by what I - no matter what- will buy...
this is no lobbying from myself or whatever, whatever my role in Mithril community may be, my position here is my own, I don't ask any "community of persons" to fall behind me with this behavior.
Please note that if a M ranged of Warg (un)mounted would appear (orcish cavalry for example) I would be the first to support it... as a range... but no more in MS suggestions... this is , as someone said, totally pointless... and in the end will comfort mithril in releasing new regular ranges less and less...
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Post by hsf62 on Oct 24, 2010 12:43:23 GMT
Good "Better" point Gildor. I made that warg myself, so no point having another one.... The old M51 is a great base for a conversion to become the big nasty warg leader.
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Post by barliman on Oct 24, 2010 14:03:56 GMT
Hmmm. It would be impossible for every member to like every figure suggested - I know I don't, and have voiced my dislikes so on more than one occasion! But if people can't suggest a figure they want, for whatever reason, then what would be the point of the Fellowship? On that basis all three of this month's finalists are valid suggestions, even if (to be as honest as Master Gildor) I don't personally like any of them. But one potential rpg figure, one potential diorama figure, and one esoteric collectible seems about the right balance.
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Post by aelfwine on Oct 24, 2010 16:17:46 GMT
The things orcs ride on are not Wargs (repeat after me ) Beyond that, yes a Warg chieftain, big warg, big scary looking wolf thing... would be rather good, if executed well. (Hell, a bunch of wargs from Mithril would make me very happy). I tossed a coin between Guthlaf and the Warg. The queen's head came up, so warg it is. But I'd welcome Guthlaf rather more than an ultra-obscure personage from the appendices.
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Post by Gildor on Oct 24, 2010 17:45:25 GMT
Master Barliman, it is not about suggesting, it is about voting indeed people should have freedom to suggest whatever they want indeed!! I am still waiting after Master O'Brian answers to my mails some time ago, and still waiting for mister Edman to make official announcements about what he plans with Mithril but that's another topic...
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 24, 2010 19:12:18 GMT
The hive is BUZZING a little. Now if we could just get some new bees to emerge…
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 24, 2010 19:59:07 GMT
I am not so concerned about the ideas that are submitted, as I am about member participation. True, I will fight tooth and nail for a suggestion that I fancy, but whether a beast or a boy and a broom wins is inconsequential. Emphasis should be placed on strengthening the cohesiveness of the fellowship. If there are 300 members, then 300 voices should be heard. Regardless of what anyone says, all members should be encouraged to speak freely and openly in this forum without fear of embarrassment or retribution.
One more thing: A silent member is still vocal, provided he or she votes.
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Post by barliman on Oct 24, 2010 21:14:20 GMT
Now I'm perplexed, Master Gildor. If people have the freedom to suggest whatever they want, I assume that they have the same freedom to vote for whatever they want. That being the case, I think I must have entirely misunderstood the point you were trying to make. (Always a distinct possibility...)
As for all 300 or so members ever voting, Master Grond, yes, that would be nice. Very nice. But sadly it isn't going to happen. If it was, it would have happened by now.
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 25, 2010 1:47:40 GMT
Now I'm perplexed, Master Gildor. If people have the freedom to suggest whatever they want, I assume that they have the same freedom to vote for whatever they want. That being the case, I think I must have entirely misunderstood the point you were trying to make. (Always a distinct possibility...) As for all 300 or so members ever voting, Master Grond, yes, that would be nice. Very nice. But sadly it isn't going to happen. If it was, it would have happened by now. Absolutely correct. Some consider classification paramount. Perhaps they use it as an argument not to vote for a suggestion that doesn’t fit into a certain category. Of course, that’s their point of view. I may not agree with it, but I understand where Gildor is coming from. Actually, if that whole MS business is so important, and submitting anything outside the MS category is so detrimental, why don't they place restrictions on the voting to reflect this? The way I see it, everyones' ideas will eventually have their turn, as the choices are obviously finite. You’re probably right about the absent majority. I’m going to keep throwing it out there nevertheless. Maybe a sleeper will come by one day and see that they are indeed welcome. Perhaps they will spread the word, and others will follow. Yeah, and maybe I’m just a big metal head after all. Anyway, I’ve noticed some new names in the forum, and maybe some old silent ones have stepped up to the plate. It’s not a total loss. Change takes time. And speaking of change, how about a change in the numbers up there? How about nine more votes for the Warg Leader! WHOOF! WHOOF!
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 25, 2010 2:16:04 GMT
Good "Better" point Gildor. I made that warg myself, so no point having another one.... The old M51 is a great base for a conversion to become the big nasty warg leader. Oh, please! Isn't that just typical of you Isengarders. Now that you have your mounted White-hand Orc, forget about everyone else right? I also have M51. It's a real nice piece, but the animal is much too small to be a Warg Leader. Plus, M51 is in that same old running pose that we always see them in.
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 25, 2010 2:42:55 GMT
The things orcs ride on are not Wargs (repeat after me ) Beyond that, yes a Warg chieftain, big warg, big scary looking wolf thing... would be rather good, if executed well. (Hell, a bunch of wargs from Mithril would make me very happy). I tossed a coin between Guthlaf and the Warg. The queen's head came up, so warg it is. But I'd welcome Guthlaf rather more than an ultra-obscure personage from the appendices. I know this was a subject of debate a while back and shouldn't be brought up now (especially since you tossed the coin and all), but, if you read the passage in The Hobbit, where Tolkien first introduces the Wargs, Tolkien interchanges the words "Warg" and "Wolf" several times. The Wargs are described as an evil race of wolves. They back the orcs 100%. In the Battle of Five Armies the orcs ride them. Ordinary wolves are just too small to ride (the heaviest ever recorded weighed 176 lbs), unless you believe in little 50 lb orc jockeys. I could be wrong, but that's how I read it. Whether true or not, thanks for the input.
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Post by barliman on Oct 25, 2010 7:15:02 GMT
I was going to point out the same Hobbit references, Master Grond, but you beat me to it!
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Post by Milo on Oct 25, 2010 8:21:33 GMT
a voté.
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Post by Gildor on Oct 25, 2010 10:43:51 GMT
now some explanations...
To Grond: why does Mithril does not restrict suggestions to given themes? It has been done before by Mithril, and it was VERY BADLY received so they stopped using this sytem by fear to upset the fellowship members... which was right I still militate for people to be able to suggest what they want.... the problem is to submit it in the right place... there used to be (and still is) a wish list for what people would like to see realized/released as regulars... Why don't people MASS suggest in those threads too.... suggesting is GOOD, voting too... what is "wrong" is to do so in the wrong category according to me.... Do you think a "bare-wolf" should cost 20€ because it is flagged GF while it is, no matter how detailed in sculpting, rather simple, and should not cost more than a regular price? there are matters of price too to be considered...
when I talk about voting... I consider that there are people here who have no ideas and would prefer to vote for someone else's suggestions... these are not suggesting but voting... There are many months in which I am such a person... having no idea to submit...
I agree, there should be MORE votes.... but why is there so few?... Because many people have understood that GF are the only thing mithril is producing... and so they took part in the program in a FULL passive mode only to be able to get figurines because there is nothing else that will be released if you want a mithril figurine in your hand...
this helps the work for Mithril : they can know the amount of figurines they have to produce without risking mass production and no sales afterwards... all in all, GF is "holy bread" for Mithril in terms of marketing and sales it is a ZERO risk at all....
Still Mithril says there will be regulars besides GF so people expect.... but there are none IF the GF structure is SOOO business-attractive for Mithril, why then not making the Regular releases based on the same model than the GF
Suggestions of Ranges.... Votings.... from members Mithril can aknowledge to be sure to have enough castings to dispatch... and not too much...
At the moment I am myself organizing polls on my forum to discuss what next ranges could be produces, based on all the members desires and quantified by statistics from multi-choice polls...
If mithril CAN have the "assurance" that at least X persons (without the need of subscriptions or any contract) will buy product Y... there is no risk in producing it...
as long as what should be regular will be suggested and voted (freely indeed), people will remain satisfied with Mithril... and not upset and will "accept" infinite delays of regular releases....
I am not in for a fight, but if "numbers" show to mister Edman that regular releases are not optionnal but necessary because people want it... then decisions will be taken... I suppose
now if people don't care about the "classification" between PUBLIC and PRIVATE release.... why do we care to have regulars at all... after all, there are mithril produced each month...
but I tend to believe that at one point, everybody here wants regulars... and wants mithril to appear in shops again... why, then.... won't anybody besides a very little few express their concern about it..
I may have a big collection of mithril, maybe the biggest in terms of rarity still I am not the veteran at collecting mithril than others around here... Still I was a member of the Original Fellowship... and was among the very first members of the Gold Fellowship... and I share this view of what a "Fellowship (gold or not) release" should be... and it has always been, in the past something meant to be SPECIAL... If things are different... then Mithril folks, please make a statement.... And I won't carry on paying what I pay and programming what I code for Mithril promotion each year.... and Mithril will have lost one of its most active supporters....
Mithril as a brand..... not Chris Tubb
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 25, 2010 17:15:50 GMT
Thank you Gildor. I am not looking for a fight. Initially I thought your point of view was rather narrow and even a bit selfish. Quite the contrary. You make several good points. Plus, your credentials are most impressive. Who am I to challenge a member who has the biggest collection in terms of rarity and who was a member of the Original Fellowship and the very first member of the Gold Fellowship? That would be disrespectful (irresistible sarcasm). However, I do have my doubts about the following: “I agree, there should be MORE votes.... but why is there so few?... Because many people have understood that GF are the only thing mithril is producing... and so they took part in the program in a FULL passive mode only to be able to get figurines because there is nothing else that will be released if you want a mithril figurine in your hand...
this helps the work for Mithril : they can know the amount of figurines they have to produce without risking mass production and no sales afterwards... all in all, GF is "holy bread" for Mithril in terms of marketing and sales it is a ZERO risk at all.…”This can‘t be the only reason why so many abandoned the forum! I’m afraid I am also guilty of not taking into account miniature prices. I expect the larger ones to cost more (not astronomically more), but a relatively simple piece, such as a Warg, would not be out of reach. Plus, no one is twisting anyone’s arm to buy every single miniature. I saw in the palantir a final surge of member support for the heavily burdened Guthlaf. So be it. It will make for a very interesting piece and will fall within GF guidelines right? Now we are all one big happy family again...until next month.
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 25, 2010 17:23:54 GMT
I was going to point out the same Hobbit references, Master Grond, but you beat me to it! I have too much bloody time on my hands this weekend.
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Post by fulvio on Oct 25, 2010 19:15:00 GMT
Grond: "This can‘t be the only reason why so many abandoned the forum!" Maybe You may think on the fact that many peoples USE miniatures in a dynamic game, and may be disatisfied by so many static pieces usable only in dioramas. May be very interesting to see how many of each single MS series miniature has been sold, just to see if a fighting figure has been appreciated more than (in example) "bilbo on the barrel" and the like. Also, i was tempted to not get any new released Mithrils due to the VERY POOR glossy primer found in the last M serie, also very hard to remove. WHY i may NOT have an unprimered pieces at the same price of the primered one? But my love for the Mithrils has got the victory...
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 26, 2010 6:41:48 GMT
Grond: "This can‘t be the only reason why so many abandoned the forum!" Maybe You may think on the fact that many peoples USE miniatures in a dynamic game, and may be disatisfied by so many static pieces usable only in dioramas. May be very interesting to see how many of each single MS series miniature has been sold, just to see if a fighting figure has been appreciated more than (in example) "bilbo on the barrel" and the like. Also, i was tempted to not get any new released Mithrils due to the VERY POOR glossy primer found in the last M serie, also very hard to remove. WHY i may NOT have an unprimered pieces at the same price of the primered one? But my love for the Mithrils has got the victory... I used to play a long time ago fulvio. Now I primarily collect miniatures for display. You might be right about the static poses, I don't know. I usually prefer a dynamic action pose to a static one. Off the point, my first miniature suggestion was Grishnakh, Orc Captain of Mordor. I wasn't the first to suggest it, nor the last. It was accepted some months later. You hang in there and your ideas will become reality! In regards to stripping a miniature, try JASCO Premium Paint & Epoxy Remover. Use a glass jar and soak the mini overnight. The next day the paint will wash right off. You can use an old toothbrush and some cleanser to scrub off the excess. If there are multiple layers of paint, or the paint is very old, a second soaking is recommended. Note: JASCO will not harm wood or metal but will dissolve plastics and blister your skin, so use tweezers or chopsticks to remove the mini from the jar. Also, use adequate ventilation. The fumes are toxic. And take your time! Spill this stuff on the floor or in the sink and there's going to be trouble. In fact, better use it outdoors to be safe.
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Post by barliman on Oct 26, 2010 12:40:00 GMT
In fairness to Mithril, it should be pointed out that the blancmange-like primer that was inflicted on some "Hems Deep 2" M-range figures is no longer used - though it's entirely possible that some of the porridge-covered figures are still sitting on the shelf waiting to be bought....
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