Peter Jacksons interpretations

[ddaines]

Reading Axel's comments regarding the Gothmog/Arathorn suggestions I don't know how others think but on the whole I think some of the concepts came through well and didn't dissapoint - the orc designs looked suitably filthy and savage (not happy about the strange Moria orcs scrabbling about like spiders).

But the main characters that did dissapoint were the Balrog - Mithril's version without bias is more to my vision; Shelob didn't come across half as revolting and repugnant as I had hoped, and she was a lot smaller than I imagined - again the Mithril Shelob looks more the part, and the Mumakil - although I did like the design they were totally too big for credibility.

Sure there were plenty of other areas where the film didn't quite match, but it's all history now.

[Axe99]

Heh - I think everyone has their favourite likes and dislikes from the films. Like you say, the (non-moria) orcs were spot-on (IMO). I also like the rohirrim, and the Uruk-Hai. On the other hand, I found the Dunlendings just a little too wild, and the Gondorians a little over-dressed and lacking in credibility. And the Corsairs were just a bit too cliche. But still a very, very good movie trilogy, and something like that, that has been interpreted so many times by so many people, will always have lots of individual hits and misses.

[Theobald]

Right, axe99. I completely agree. But I also want to stress David's opinion about the Mûmakil.

[ddaines]

I should add that the films exceeded my expectations (my initial post was done at work which was naughty), and not many films have given me goose-bumps, namely the scene when the Fellowship are filmed from the air in one of the first scenes after leaving Rivendell, with the music blaring and the camera shot panning around the magnificent Kiwi scenery and the Fellowship - pure movie magic!

I didn't mind the Corsairs, not sure how I imagine them to be and it will be interesting to see what Chris comes up with, I agree about the Dunlendings and the Gondorians did come across a bit lacking in fighting spirit especially the amount that appeared to get 'done over' by wimpy orcs! (and too much plate armour around, I reckon Tolkien favoured the mail hauberk look, but there you have it).

But that Balrog, just too GW for me!

Anyhow, roll on the Hobbit!

On a separate note, Axe, that Italian dived!!

[Theobald]

I have to confirm this seperate note, David. - He dived.

[Wendy]

I have to say my favorite part of the movie trilogy is the music.

[ddaines]

I agree Wendy, the sound-track is top notch and brings it all to life - I have two favourite bits that to me show the majesty and scope of the film/book and that is the lighting of the beacons (not quite so impressive on DVD) and the sounding of the horn's of Rohan.

I just wish PJ had kept Gandalf and the Witch-King's encounter truer to the book and not as it appeared on film that would have made the Rohirrim's arrival even more perfect.

My own quest starts now, and that is to create a series of dioramas showing as many key key scenes from the BOOK as possible, I have sketched them all out and now I must take the plunge and go for it.

[Wendy]

The movies pretty much wussified everyone except Arwen and even she lost hope for a while. I still can't believe the Gondorians were so weak.

There was something about the drums and chanting in the background in ROTK in the "entrance" of the Mumakil that's really cool.

[Axe99]

The pain, argh the pain! Aye, I watched the soccer before going to work on Tuesday morning, and needless to say was pretty fired up straight after! Still, luckily for us soccer is the 4th most popular football code over here (although the Aussie Rules team I follow, Essendon, haven't won a game since March!), and while I love the world cup, I think soccer itself is almost as much a game of chance than skill, and understand that games often turn on one or two dubiuous umpiring decisions. Still, the lads did a lot better than anyone expected, and play good, attacking creative soccer - if they get their finishing a little better, then they could be even more dangerous. Commiserations to all the Americans out there as well - your lot were unlucky to catch the Czech Republic all fired up (pity for them that they couldn't maintain it!) And good luck to Germany .

A little more on-topic, I agree wholeheartedly about the Mumakil (and am so glad Mithril produced its own version - the movie versions were just a little crazy!), the music (it rocks, even though it's obviously not rock ) and the Witch-King and Gandalf's encounter (and his lack of confidence then - this is someone who, pre-bleaching his robes, took on and nailed a Balrog!). Although my least favourite 'adaption' is the behaviour of Faramir (which leads to my funniest moment, which is when Sam says in Osgiliath 'We should never have been here in the first place' - I haven't the foggiest whether that's a really bad joke on behalf of a bitter screenwriter or not, but I burst out laughing the first time I heard it, which was pretty embarrassing!)

[ddaines]

Hey Axe (off subject),

I saw Essendon play Hawthorns(?) in Melbourne in the early 90's (I was in Oz on a six-month military exchange posting) - and you know what, having the rules explained by an Aussie and actually watching it live, the game and rules actually made sense, not like when the BBC or other channels used to show the odd match on TV over here and you were left wondering what was going on.

Mind you I still don't understand the off-side rule in football.

It was a good experience. ;D

Dave.

[aelfwine]

Bloody Australians. Everyone knows Aussie rules is just Gaelic football without some annoying D4 match officials around enforcing "rules" and "fair play."

Anyway

The good about the movies:
The Visuals - those mountain shots were great.
The music - especially from The Two Towers. A bit too much Enya in the first.
Aragorn - looking suitably scruffy. Actually, all the actors for the Fellowship worked pretty well.

What didn't:
Gondor. Grrr, I don't know where to begin.
The mooks: basically, anyone who isn't a hero on the good side is a mook, who yells "oh no" and dies. The Rohirrim at Helm's Deep. The Elves at Helm's Deep (gorgeous design, well realised scene...sort of useless deaths). The Gondorians all the time.
The AT-AT walker mumakil.
The whole Pellenor Sequence: The book description reads rather like a screenplay. The whole thing is actually very cinematic and grand. And the re-working in the movie is a bit of a flub.
Faramir: I mean, come on!

Gavin

[Axel]

Yep, that was the truest line in the Two Towers: 'We should never have been here in the first place'

There are so many things I dislike that I often wonder that I like the whole movie.

The Gondorians don't look like soldiers at all. They lack the seriousness of a figthing force. The military aspects are often lacking. The "explosions" at Osgiliath are fresh from a WWII movie, the "ambush" of the landing Orks makes no sense at all. The Mumakil are simply overdone beyond believe. The Corsairs are archetypical. The Elves (well, we know they fough in Mirkwood) are marching like robots. Theoden "runs and hides" to Helms deep? Characters there change their mind every 30 seconds. The Undead swamp the Pelennor?
Many of the liberties that Jackson takes are necessary. Without the increased presence of Arwen there is no way a non-reader could understand her impact on Aragrons motivations. But at many points he simply leaves the story for no real reason. Can you see any sense in changing the Ents decision to fight, and then - rather hastily - to dump their decision and fight? He goes out of character more often then I care to mention (despite this rant).

These are good films, but they could have been much better with a bit more care and respect for some characters. I need some distance between Jacksons film and my own version of Middle Earth.

[Wendy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that the "ambush" of the invading orcs at Osgiliath was horrible. Not only are Gondorians weak at fighting, they apparently completely lack any tactical ability. I would have thought catching them while in the boats would have made more sense with some volleys of arrows at the very least. They would still be overwelmed, but at least they'd put up a good fight.

I have to consider the movies as completely separate to really appreciate them.

I hope, down the line, someone remakes them. I'd actually like to see a miniseries type of format kind of like the A&E version of Pride and Prejudice. There would be more time for developement of plot and characters.

[Axe99]

Don't get me started on Gondor's 'tactics'. The ambush of the invading orcs at Osgiliath was an inspired act compared with the cavalry charge on a fortified position. I wonder what they thought they would do when they got to the wall?!

I back that mini-series idea (although have to admit I haven't seen/read pride and prejudice) - I think it's just too hard to do in too short a time with the movies.

[Axel]

Well, I forgot to mention that abysmal cavalry charge. At least this one was based on some "real" event in the book. Luckily they had sufficient flat plain to make a glorious charge. The fertile area protected by the Pelennor has somehow vanished with Jacksons film. Probably the money went into the creation of the Mumakil instead of realistic landscape. It seems that Gondor was reduced to a (admittedly) splendid white city, with all the rest given less - if any -attention.