November 2006 2nd Round vote is CLOSED

[Michael O'Brien]

This is the 2nd round for November 2006 and is extended until the 4th of December at 16.00 GMT.

One vote per member and good luck to all finalists.

You can post your comments and support for the ideas above as well.

[Stift]

Again three great suggestions, but I finally decided to vote for the mounted female ranger - a M16 on horse would be wonderful!
Yours,
Alex

[agodet]

Yes, a M16 on Horse !!! Mounted female ranger !
By
Arnaud

[mshartmann]

"in Moria, in Khazad-dum"

[ddaines]

"No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:
The darkness dwells in Durin's Halls......"

The West Gate of Moria please.

[Axel]

While I understand the enthusiasm for the West Gate, I am a bit puzzled on what to expect. If true to the book there will be no relief detail on the gate - it was invisible except under moonlight.

[bombadil1963]

Yes Axel, I know this!

I know this fact very well, indeed! I guess that won´t be a problem to Chris.
Look, it´s the same story with the Great Eagles of the Misty Mountains: normally they don´t need a branch of a tree sticking in the lower end of their back or breast to stay up in the air . . .

And remember: Ithildin (the stuff for the letters, colummns and trees) ist made of mithril. But it is was never done by Mithril ;D!!! So let´s wait (for the moonlight) and see what happens.
I´m full of hope and got enough fantasy to see it with my inner eye . So near that I just can grab it!

Tom Bom bo dee bom bodee bomm Bombadil

[twrich]

Moonlight comes 27 nights out of 28, minus those really cloudy nights, of course! So I suspect the runes will be made visible for all to see if Chris produces the West Gate of Moria!

[barliman]

Dare I mention that Thomarillion already produce a magnificent Moria West Gate? Dain/Brand or the Female Ranger would therefore be much more worthwhile. Judging from the voting thus far, however, it looks like the Gate stands the best chance of winning.

[Axel]

> I guess that won´t be a problem to Chris.
It will likely be a problem for me.

If it is just the gate, then it should be pretty plain - actually just a flat surface of stone.

One of the reasons i like Mithril is that they stay true to the book, and don`t add fancy items because the look good.

If there is relief on the door, then it changes these ways.
And if there is no relief, then it will be either a rather plane slab of stone, or it has to contain some of the surrounding area to make it worthwhile - which will be too expensive. See the 99€ Thormalion version below.

In any case, we know how it should look from Tolkiens illustrations:

The gate and environment by Tolkien:
middle-earth.febdian.net/image/moria_west_gate_thedoor.jpg
middle-earth.febdian.net/image/moria_west_gate-tolkien.jpg

I admit it is unlucky that I have to voice my doubts on this suggestion while one of mine is also in the vote. Anyway, I hope you believe me that the reason is not to push the M16-variant. Go for Dain and Brand, those that have not voted yet...

Given the restrictions that the books and illustrations pose on this one, I doubt that it can be made a worthwhile miniature. Creating the gate takes terrain building and painting skills, not a precast door. The best I can hope for here is a nearly invisible engravement of Tolkiens illustration on two otherwise plain (metal) slabs representing the two doors, so that I can use them to model the open gate.

Some artists variants:
www.ruf.rice.edu/~jchance/brown_files/westgate.jpg
middle-earth.febdian.net/image/moria_west_gate.jpg

And here Thormarillions version:
www.thomarillion.de/index.php?seite=katalog&gross=G&sprache=d_&modell=moriator&pos=2&PHPSESSID=19fad44fb718ee580b8824e0a0b9ac98

[bombadil1963]

Hey there,

beforehand one statement should be allowed: I like to discuss a lot and I´m a very serious Tolkien-Fan! I know all of his books that deal with Middle Earth (plus some more) and I am full of respect for his life-work!
Chris has chosen three suggestions for the second round so he has the decision in the end.
And I´m not willing to argue just because of a suggestion. If it´s not suitable for Mithril and the fellows I´ll be content with the result.

Tim Tom Bombadil Tom Bom-Badillo

[Will the Fey]

I agree and share the concern of Axel.

I really doubt that a door/gate/a plane slab of stone can be made a really worthwhile as the special Fellowship miniature. I'm quite sure I won't buy it.
(I haven't buy even the M286 Doorway, And it's very cheap compared to Fellowship only miniatures...)

I have already voted Dain and King Brand fighting back to back.
But because the mounted female ranger is leading Dain and King Brand by two votes, you who have not voted and don't want a door as a special Fellowship miniature, should vote for the mounted female ranger. She got a little more change to win. And there are not many mounted female figures in Mithril range, so I think that she is very welcome.

Btw. Thormarillions version of Moria West Gate looks great, but it costs 99 euros, and it's quite a lot...

[Axel]

Well, despite what I said: vote what you like best. Bombadil is right in his statement that Chris must have (kind of) approved all three suggestions, else they would not have made it into the second round. A part of me is itching to see how he handles that challenge...

And - regardless of the outcome - I will buy the doorways anyway because I want my collection complete.

--

Anyway, here is why I voted for the Female Ranger!

The M16 is probably the most legendary miniature of the Mithril line. It may no longer be the rarest or most expensive, but it is something like the "holy grail" of most collectors.

In the good old times Chris used to do characters in different poses. Apart from the multi-poses made for Prince August, there is one I remember perfectly from the early Mithril time, the Cardolan mercenary who is battling as M36, and card playing as M114. With some imagination, the other card player might be the (differently clad) M9.

I liked these small connections a lot, and if there is one character that deserves to be similarly honored - not because of its role in Tolkiens books, but due to its very own personality and history - its the M16.

Putting her on a horse is to - to speak in hobbitish - to kill three birds with one stone. We get
- a mounted female,
- a ranger to accompany Halbarad, and last but foremost,
- a reincarnation of this iconic Mithril character!

Thus written, I am sure that sooner or later a reincarnation of her will find general Fellowship approval. I will resuggest her for some time - in different poses each month - until I either tire of the idea or she finally makes it. If you want her riding, give her a chance and your vote.

[ddaines]

Actually Axel your points about the reincarnation of the Female Ranger have striking similarities with Sideshow/WETA's decision regarding their Balrog release.

To cut a long story short the original Balrog they released has, like M16 achieved Grail status and is now going for silly money on ebay. So to partly assist those collectors who missed the original (and make more money for themselves) they released another version of the Balrog albeit in a smaller scale and in a different pose, and at a considerably cheaper price than the original.

So I guess if there is enough support for an idea, or fans pester Mithril enough then who knows perhaps the F.R. could make an appearence in another form even if not as a GF figure.

Regarding the gate of Moria, I have to admit I have assumed (and voted for it on that basis) that Chris would engrave the images on it should it win the vote, or at least have one side engraved and one side plain to suit all tastes, otherwise there does not seem a lot of point in having it.

Still there are many leagues to travel yet before the voting ends and who knows what dangers may waylay weary travellers before the journey's end.

[Wendy]

Well, Dain and Brand have made an admirable comeback...of sorts...
Don't count them out just yet!

[Hammershield]

The West Gate of Moria is the only suggestion so far I am pretty sure I would not buy. If it is sold in correct scale dimension, (which it probably not be so thats another reason right there) it will be quite expensive piece of pewter.

So I serioulsy hope the other two alternatives will pick up speed, preferably the Dain King Brand one.

[bombadil1963]

Very interesting development . . .

By the way: I´m looking for support and allies for the West Gate!!!
But I don´t want to lead a campaign against other fellow´s suggestions !

And please notice: I will buy any suggested miniature that wins this month! The suggestions are all very good!

[twrich]

Well I certainly support the West Gate! And I also will buy any Mithril Chris creates; and I might even buy two of these, one to game with and one to keep mint.

But to answer some concerns: there is no reason that the design in the door should be a problem--those who don't want it can paint over it, also there are some interesting paints out there, if I am not mistaken, that will only show under certain light sources, ie blacklights.

As for scale, that is hardly a new issue . . . the Great Eagles and Sauron come immediately to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

I hope those who want and could use a representation of the West Gate of Moria aren't swayed by those arguments.

[Gildor]

Though I will buy any mithril that is produced I must admit I am perplex. Indeed I would be glad to see a west gate of Moria, but when I think about it... besides the necessary precision needed for the carving designs of the door, the door itself is a simple plane of stone without any special design, it is supposed to be bare, HIGH and LARGE and fit the the mountain wall design on its edges. This means, when reported to Mithril : a simple rectangle of bare metal with tolkien designs on it. I consider it to be an "accessory", not a figurine. Unless there is a character along with the door, this is not a figurine and well, though I doubt Chris Tubb would be reluctant to do it, it is a poor using of his great talents to make him focus on such a "basic" work inside the Gold Fellowship (not to mention the price it will be because of the low casting).

Anyway, that's just my opinion, and I will buy it anyway of course, and anybody who wants to vote for it, please don't let my arguments stop you. In any way, the "figurine" will be great

[bombadil1963]

Okay,

I´ve got an idea to satisfy all the critics.
For me the setted aim is the Gate. But I understand that it better should be created in perfect harmony with Tolkien´s description. On the other hand it should be recognizable as the gate!

Here are some facts: it is made of stone (rocks) and mithril.
So there´s one question: how is the mithril connected with or better bound in the stone, so, that it can´t be seen from the outside, besides elvish magic?
Any craftsmen out there? No?

I would say, in those times, you needed a hammer and a chisel to carve in the lines that should later on be filled with mithril. Dwarvish work and arts . . .

We know that Narvi built that door of stone and Celebrimbor did the mithril-works. So what about one of them caught in action during the preparing-works on the Gate? This could explain visible, carved lines, before they were filled with mithril and become invisible (except under moonlight) again.

Who needs the door alone can leave the character away . . .

Peace?

[bombadil1963]

. . . . never give up!

[Wendy]

Perhaps the Gate is ajar?

[Gildor]

Actually, having Narvi and/or Celebrimbor working on the crafting of the gate , making the Gate, not a simple gate, but a vignette of "The Building of the West Gate" woud be great. With the design of the gate only "almost finished" (or complete for people who want to adapt it for diorama without the figuines)

I know that it is not the original idea, and that could increase the price of the figurine/vignette if we add characters to it, but then... It would be quite more interesting...
I Imagine Narvi standing there on the right side arms crossed looking with agreement at Celebrimbor, his friend, on the left bent (or knelt) before the West gate, finishing to "sculpt" the last of the "carvings" of the west gate design.

These characters are mentionned in LotR, no licence problem.
A dwarf is half the size of a man (so not a lot of metal...) and Celebrimbor has a simple apron with trousers (as in the MS225 figurine) which should not be very difficult to sculpt, except maybe the fact he is bent, or knelt.

Now THIS, in my opinion, would satisfy MANY people, including myself...
Maybe people should comment this suggestion before the vote has ended, so that Chris can think about this idea when it comes to scupt it.

Indeed that would be more expensive... it could reach the price of the Death of Boromor or even Sauron... but well, since it is a vignette Month and that the favored proposition is a vignette, let's make it a worthy vignette
Beside, this would be a real fellowship vignette and exceptionnal one, an "upgrade" of the fellowship symbolic figurine 'MS225 Celebrimbor'.

Please, let me know your comments on it...

[ddaines]

This gate suggestion/debate is getting rather complicated now, regarding should it be plain, should it have the carving on it, extra figures etc.

Surely the Gate itself would be produced plain on one side and engraved on the other so we can choose our own preference for finishing it, and as I posted before I can't see any point of a plain block of metal and would agree with the No voters on that basis, it is the skill of CT to reproduce the engraving that draws me to the idea, and that is why I would like to see the Gate produced, I want to model a West Gate in all its Mithril glory - newly crafted or opening for the Fellowship.

The idea of the two creators is good and gives a further option (single figure suggestions for the Xmas period perhaps - although I would think, Gildor that Celebrimbor would only be dressed like that in the hot furnaces of the forges and not in an outdoor environment), but Will it (as some comments seem to suggest) be that expensive? I imagine it would only need to be big enough to accomodate the height of an elf when relations between the races were on good terms, and possibly wide enough to have two or three 'human' size figures abreast - I'm not refering to the book so have no data to hand.

Anyhow all will be decided tomorrow and we shall see.

[barliman]

But will late voters actually know what they're voting for now, I wonder - plain gates, decorated gates, bit of cliff, no cliff, Narvi, or Celebrimbor, or all of the above? It's all got very confusing!

Personally I'm still hoping for a late charge to the line by either the female ranger or Dain and Brand.

It's very disappointing, by the way, to see how few members have voted! - just 53 as I write this, with the polls only open for about another eight hours. How big is the Membership now anyway, and why do so few - largely the same 'hard core' of about 60 to 65 ('all the usual suspects', you might say...) - participate in the voting each month? The percentage 'turn-out' would probably be bigger even for a General Election!!

[Theobald]

Well, a new round now ... before I put my vote I would just like to add my disappointment to that of barliman and Michael.
I really cannot understand why just a few people here are voting Is it a lack of interest ... is it because of technical problems - as Michael thought - maybe, for some of them, it simply might be a lack of time ... I really cannot explain to myself about this ... well ... this was said

[ddaines]

Yes, come on voters, if it time you are worried about, it took me all of 1.5 seconds to cick two buttons; you don't even need to justify the vote, just do it. And it doesn't cost you anything at this stage!

[savage727]

I have been away and am glad the voting was extended by Michael. Of the three suggestions the one that appealed to me the most this month was Dain and King Brand so that is who received my vote! Good luck.

[Deleted]

Gate of Moria please! I only really buy Vignettes!

[Hammershield]

Woohoo! Ranger in the lead!
A side note: no point in griping at members for not voting, try a positive spin insted. Its up to all of us actives, Michael and ultimately Mithril to make this as appealing as possible. Anything else will only create a negative image of this board