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Post by Will the Fey on Feb 15, 2006 14:46:49 GMT
I wonder, do you have any future plans for Mithril Classics series? Have you any plans to add miniatures to it, or retire some out of it? I was very pleased to notice that, you have fulfilled several of my proposal to new Classics. Especially MC32=M309 Orc warband leader it's a very fine miniature and you must always have a good and strong orc leader in your selection. But I really don't understand, why you add M304 Great Eagle: Meneldor to Classics; It's one of the worst Mithrils, ever. it's too small and boring simple. And definitely worst of your 3 Giant Eagles. Gwaihir is best of three, and the most well known. M301 Gwaihir is quite good, it's just too small for a GIANT eagle. Now I propose Gil-Galad and Isildur, please add them to Classics. I think that they both are 'key personalities' and should be available all time. At least Isildur, and M272 is fine miniature. LR7 is even better, but it's from Limited Range, and can't be used. But I'm not so sure about M269 Gil-Galad, it's fine, but maybe Gil-Galad on foot, with his great spear Aeglos, would be better. I think you could use Gil-Galad from MS435, but slightly change him, of cause. But what you think, is some 'key personalities' or important generic type missing at Classics. Or should somebody be removed from Classics, and if why?
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Post by aelfwine on Feb 16, 2006 22:21:03 GMT
Well, I think one important idea would be to link MC releases with M-series themes.
So the, say, Battle of Mirkwood M series should have seen some of the Lorien Elves as releases. The idea being that the M series would introduce new models, and the MC releases would tempt people into buying MC models related to the M series.
I know I bought about five Lorien bowmen to go with the Battle of Mirkwood elves I had bought.
Gavin
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Post by Michael O'Brien on Feb 17, 2006 9:11:47 GMT
Well, I think one important idea would be to link MC releases with M-series themes. So the, say, Battle of Mirkwood M series should have seen some of the Lorien Elves as releases. The idea being that the M series would introduce new models, and the MC releases would tempt people into buying MC models related to the M series. I know I bought about five Lorien bowmen to go with the Battle of Mirkwood elves I had bought. Gavin We will consider a new release of MC's. Perhaps we will make a vote on the likely candidates when I am given a list of possibilities.
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Post by aelfwine on Feb 17, 2006 17:31:38 GMT
That works for me.
There's a couple of things you should aim for:
- MERP characters, though perhaps released as generic "elf lady" for Tolwen. They don't seem to be hugely collectable, but they are quite cool in many cases.
- Non personalities; warriors in particular. This would help out the wargaming AND the diorama crowd. If you want to, say, have a Helm's Deep diorama and you want to have a dozen Dunlendings and a dozen half orcs and a dozen Uruk Hai and a bunch of orcs as "scenery" then you are in for a very expensive time on ebay
- Favoured personalities: some collectors will have favourite poses or visualisations of common personalities (eg, the early Legolas or Galadriel poses) which would be cool to vote on.
That being said, I think it would be rather exciting to have future M series "army diorama" releases of Southron infantry (and/or cavalry), Rohirrim cavalry, Easterlings and so forth. Warriors already released could be re-released as MC units to go along with the newer releases, or merely "bundled" in the army group.
Just a thought
Gavin
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Post by groovecrown on Feb 17, 2006 20:31:30 GMT
My personal opinion is that there should be a resistance to release too many Mithril Classics. The reason for this is that many collectors, including myself, have spent a lot of time and money obtaining figures that are no longer readily available. That is part of the fun of collecting. If a lot of figures are turned into classics (and it is my belief that one cannot tell the difference between an original and classic out of the package) then the fun of collecting will partially be lost along with a feeling of being duped into paying a higher price for a figure to later discover it is no longer hard to find and if you had waited you could have obtained it cheaper.
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Post by twrich on Feb 18, 2006 3:34:47 GMT
I understand groovecrown's concern about new MC releases based on existing miniatures "cheapening" the worth of older, more collectable Mithrils. An easy solution, without causing Chris too much extra work, would be to slightly modify the original--arm at a different angle, slight change in stance, helm vs no helm, etc...
The new MC piece would be a variant of the original, and therefore not reduce its collectability or value. Also, as a viariant piece, each new MC Mithril would itself be more collectable and, eventually, valuable.
What do others think? twich (buhman)
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Post by Will the Fey on Feb 18, 2006 20:59:43 GMT
groovecrown brings up a very important question, the policy about re-releasing old M-series miniatures. It's question about the collectability vs a good selection of Mithril figures at the reasonable prices. I liked twich idea modify the MC miniatures slightly very much, I think that would be best for all of us: collectors and diorama builders. (Officially, we don't care about wargamers, because there are no wargamers among us, just army builders for diorama purposes, like me.) We have to remember the realities, that there are now only one Mithril sculptor Chris Tubb and his time is limited. He is right now making those highly collectable MS-series miniatures for us, in addition to new M-series and his other works. There is an old promise from the company, not to re-release old figures from M-series. Here is a quote from Mithril handbook (number one) : "It is Mithril policy to keep the Middle-earth range to a certain size, which means that older figures in the range cease to be available as new ones are added. This is an outgoing process. It's also our policy never to re-release old figures once they have gone out of production this way. We do, however, continue to make new versions of famous characters, like Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond etc, so that these nearly always in the current range in some form or other. We also attempt to keep a balance of certain generic types continuously in the range so that there are almost always Orcs, Elves etc available." Personally I hate see all Chris good old sculpts go out of reach because of this policy. I'd like to see the best old Mithrils re-released. But I can very well understand that most collectors of us think just opposite. They have put a lot of money this hobby, or have bought Mithril from the very beginning of the company. Violating this old policy would indeed cause many Mithril collectors feel that they betrayed, or at least "duped into paying a higher price". If you modify the original sculpt, before you re-release the M-series miniature, you might please both type of your customers, without violating too much your old policy/promise. What do you think about this?
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Post by Theobald on Feb 19, 2006 13:28:23 GMT
Thank you, Peter for your last entry Thank you for quoting from the "Handbook" because this exactly explains my interest as a collector (and painter of miniatures). I still do rely upon that. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to me to collect Mithril Miniatures except from their quality. Let me also thank you expressing your thoughts about the one (single) person sculpturing these figures we are keen on. I once tried to broadcast this same thought.
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Post by aelfwine on Feb 21, 2006 6:50:18 GMT
Well there's also the business perspective...Mithril NOT re-releasing old figures makes collectors happy, and Mithril got paid for the release...many years ago, and got a few dollars for it. However, if, say someone sells M23 (just grabbing a number off the top of my head) for 40 dollars now, then Mithril isn't (obviously) making any money off it.
So appealing to collectors is all well and good, but one cannot really rely on a collector's market. There has to be a primary consumer market. (Relying on collector's only has been the undoing of the American comic book market, for example). And the primary consumer market will have to be those willing to pay $5 for a small pewter miniature.
And Mithril is in Ireland, which is a hideously expensive place. So, they need their beer money.
I think the "slightly different" approach works best. Take, say, the Elf Girl with bow (the first one) and maybe change the post. Or use the body and make her an Elf Girl with spear. This way someone coming "fresh" to the "hobby" gets to enjoy the Elf Girl model, but the collector keeps the value of the original.
I was advocating more "warband-y" sets. This would be a perfect setting for such releases. Take something that is similar, but noticeably different from the original - say, a Rohir with longsword, and make that the base model from which we make several different poses of Rohir with longswords, spears and so forth. So you have something similar to the original, the collector remains happy, and there's more "frontlist" sales. And beer money for Mithril.
The question would be...could Mithril afford to hire a secondary converter/sculptor person?
Gavin
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Post by Axe99 on Feb 26, 2006 20:52:23 GMT
Heh - there's another issue with your post, aelfwine, and that is could they find someone else that could do as good a job as Chris? Mithril sculpts are pretty special, and Chris's non-mithril work also stands out (whenever I've seen it, I've generally picked it as Chris's work before I knew).
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Post by twrich on Mar 9, 2006 8:57:00 GMT
Could we find another Michelangelo of miniatures? Doubtful. And one who'd be willing to put their current/contemplated masterpieces on hold to take up the the banner of Mithril? Improbable!
But I don't think aelfwine is looking for a clone of Chris, perhaps just a little "production" help.
Even so, I don't think the current talent at Mithril--all parties included--are becoming wealthy from the Mithril Fellowship (perhaps I am dead wrong--tell me if so).
The practice of Chris leveraging his time, and Mithril's production budget, by casting like figures in different poses is one that has been utilized on occasion since they secured the license from T. Ent. to create these marvelous miniatures way back when. The Lossarnach set is the most recent example. It only makes sense that future "M" or "MC" series releases continue to do so as well. Easterlings, Southrons, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Trolls, even a MERP character or two! I'll want them all, if Chris continues to sculpt these pieces with such talent as he has in the past--especially of late. I think his skills have actually been improved by the challenges of our recent suggestions, and the designer MX figures.
And that makes our input concerning future Mithril miniatures on a monthly basis all the more, dare I say, precious! I can't wait for the soon to be released pieces!
PS. Peter, there are still some role-players/wargamers among us. Like diorama builders, we feverently collect Mithrils, and actually do something with part of our collections!
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Post by aelfwine on Mar 21, 2006 9:53:54 GMT
Exactly... I don't think anyone can beat Chris Tubb (though the guy who sculpted Haldir's Elves over at GW comes vaguely close) and I wasn't suggesting replacing him. But if Mithril were able to hire someone, even part time or freelance, to convert or remodel some of the older models for future "classics" releases, it would make many people happy. Here's my interest: when the Battle of Mirkwood came out I bought an Elvish swordsman and two of the spearmen from that range. I then found an Elvish spearman on Ebay (its 4am...don't ask for numbers! ) I had bought a few of those Elvish bowmen from the MC range. So I figured I would make a small army of Mirkwood elves. Which is great and all. Only, if I want more poses - say a different set of bowmen, then I have to scour ebay. A Mirkwood bowman recently went for something like £20. That's way beyond my price range. It's just a bowman. Nothing special, not a character. It's not even that special a miniature. Highly collectable because of rarity, but for no other reason. I would like to buy some reasonably priced elvish archers. The best way to make me happy would be to release such a thing in the MC range. But I also acknowledge that if the mirkwood archer came out in MC, it would damage the resale value for collectors. So a converted pose, maybe even in an "army set" would be highly welcome. Gavin
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Post by ddaines on Mar 21, 2006 19:30:45 GMT
I do wish actually that Chris/Mithril could perhaps include alternative arms/weapon choices, even heads where there is no hair to be resculpted, as standard. Does it take up that much extra space in the mould, would it push prices up? My old favourite wish is for horse reins to be cast separate and then folded around the horse - it would save a lot of hassle (for me) when preparing for a diorama where i am looking for realism as opposed to the solidness of a peice that will be handled regularly on a game board. I seem to remember many years ago a French company called SEGOM providing 25mm figures (mainly Napoleonics I think) where the modeller could cut off any unwanted limbs, after all a Cuirassier with 4 arms would look a bit daft, but the idea was good! David.
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Post by aelfwine on Apr 8, 2006 16:10:17 GMT
Here's a thought regarding "rare" figures in the MC Range.
Go to Many Mithril Pages, and check out the "average price" then price the rare MC figure accordingly. This means that the collector's resale value won't decline too much.
Gavin
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Post by Will the Fey on Apr 13, 2006 11:47:44 GMT
Or use the body and make her an Elf Girl with spear. This way someone coming "fresh" to the "hobby" gets to enjoy the Elf Girl model, but the collector keeps the value of the original. This is the normal way to make miniatures for the mass markets. And if you look carefully you can see that it's used with Mithril M-series too and of cause much with old warbands. It's simply too expensive to make a new armature/body for all miniatures. Sculpting is not cheap, as we all can see it at Mithril site; one MX miniature costs €2680! But they have already done it with new The Army of Gondor - Lossarnach Province! No, it's not just that. I think that we, Mithril collectors, love the "feel" and realism of Chris sculpting. I think that Mithril miniatures are loyal to subject and Tolkien's vision of the Middle-Earth. There are many miniature sculptors who are technically good enough, but they can miss the vision and dedication to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. And because today is very popular to make very unrealistic cartoon like "Hero scale" miniatures with huge weapons; and they have learned to sculpt just that way. They just don't care about natural measures of humans, humanoids or animals; It's important that pose is "dynamic" and there are many many details. And of cause that miniature looks mean!
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Post by ddaines on Apr 14, 2006 11:08:56 GMT
Get another sculptor in then you get the 'I like so and so better because.....etc'. type debates, plus as comments seem to reflect regarding GW figures, what if the styles are different (as they would almost certainly be) and figures don't match, look different etc.
I had considered utilising GW and Mithril figures for a Helm's Deep diorama (using perspective to allow for scale difference), but couldn't bring myself to do it, not because GW LotR figures are not good, but the styles were not the same sculpting wise as much as anything.
So my view would be to let Chris do the business for as long as he is happy to do so, and when he retires(!), get someone else to build on Chris's foundations (I suspect I will have gone to the 'Halls of my fathers' by then) and carry on the Line.
David.
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Post by aelfwine on Apr 14, 2006 15:20:19 GMT
I wasn't talking about having them hire a second sculptor, but rather a conversion assistant or something. And I know that the miniatures are based on individual armatures. The question, of course, is whether the armatures still exist If not, you'd need some sort of conversion arrangement before going into production. As for GW and Mithril...some work really well together. The Haldir's Elves, for example are of the nice size, detail and restrained pose to look good beside the Mithrils. The GW rangers of the North look OK alongside the Mithril rangers (though, yoo hoo, Mithril - I AM REALLY OPEN TO REPLACING MY GW ONES WITH YOURS. HOP TO IT.) I converted a bunch of Mithril and GW figures to form my band of heroes for the RPG (if I ever get around to using it) and they look good together. And Orcs and Orcs, really. Gavin
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Post by savage727 on May 19, 2006 17:55:57 GMT
I think there has to be a happy medium here. We all must remember that Mithril is in business to make money and the lack of income from not selling a product is a sure recipe for disaster for the company and us as well. I am brand new to collecting Mithril. I am not looking to have one of every figure that has ever been produced to date - I think it would be impossible or so cost prohibitive that I would lose my wife and home in the process!! I am very happy with what I see available from Mithril directly and love The Fellowship concept - that is why I joined - to be able to voice my opinion about a figure or set I would like to see produced. How cool is that opportunity!! I do not think any company can rely on its base to sustain them - you always need new blood with new ideas and cash to purchase your products. Is it fair to say that the sculpts by Chris have gotten better over the years? I don't know the answer to that one but I love his current work especially the figures available to Fellowship members. I agree with many of the previous posters thoughts and would just like to see this company sail ahead on calm financial waters and produce the figures we all would like to have.
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Post by Will the Fey on Feb 4, 2007 20:57:19 GMT
I'd really like to know have you made any decision concerning the Mithril Classics series and re-release policy?
I think that issue is a very important and it interest every serious Mithril-collector.
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Post by aelfwine on Feb 5, 2007 17:58:59 GMT
Oh, I wasn't really thinking of someone to sculpt new figures - but some minion to make new arms, say, or adapt an existing model into a new pose.
The Mithril line is as much a show case of Chris Tubb's incredible talents and aesthetic as it is a show case of Tolkien's genius. I doubt I could truly imagine any other sculptor working on the Mithril Range.
But someone who could make arms, weapons, gear, new heads... that would work. And those converted classics could become Classics, as it were.
Gavin
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Post by Will the Fey on Feb 7, 2007 23:09:06 GMT
Oh, I wasn't really thinking of someone to sculpt new figures - but some minion to make new arms, say, or adapt an existing model into a new pose. Oh' No No NO! The issue is NOT hiring other sculptor nor assistant for Master Tubbs! It's just the re-release policy of old M-series miniatures! I'd like to read more comment about it, especially from The Fellowship members. I'd like to see some of the best old sculpts re-maked and re-released. But I can see that all of us, The Fellowship members, don't feel the same. And I can understand very well, why not so... But please tell us what you think about it.
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