|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 8, 2010 20:14:12 GMT
If by now you have not understand that my "fight" is not for regulars to be "banned" from anywhere but to HAVE REGULARS being released!! now if you don't care about mithril disappearing totally except the MS.... good for you... but it seems you are the only one here among those who care to comment on the problem since in democracy, things are achieved by voting, a sanction vote here to express the feeling is indeed the right place for the community to express itself. it's not a money problem... it seems you keep making mistakes on the motivations... maybe because you are not willing to take part in Mithril life and are just contempt ... Maybe it is because you have not personnaly exchanged mails with Chris when HE does say HE IS UPSET by the lack of regulars as much as I Do... but he is not heard by Mithril leader Lars Edman.... even if Chris is the founder of Mithril himself... this does hurt... for someone passionate... What have you done to promote mithril yourself? what would you be ready to do? have you even suggested something in that sense... I tend to believe you are among those happy not to see anything being released beside MS.... Prove me wrong... (post edited as it MAY happen I did not understand all of the sense of Grond's post.... my english maybe... I'm ready to make amend if I was wrong on the understanding totally but I'd need some explanation then) No need to feel threatened Gildor. Come down from your ivory tower. I am not contemptuous. I merely call it the way I see it. If members want M or MS releases, then let them submit them. We will vote on them. Isn't that fair? Also, don't ask me what I've done for Mithril, as if you're the only one that cares or understands. I am a regular customer and a participating member of this forum.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 8, 2010 20:16:36 GMT
I applaud at Tolwen comments!! I would not have said that well in such precise words! Thanks to you, I hope it will be more understood than my own posts because I know maybe I don't use the right words in english ....
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 8, 2010 20:20:46 GMT
"If members want M or MS releases, then let them submit them. We will vote on them. Isn't that fair?" Where on earth did you see we COULD vote for M releases and have them released...
show me the thread please... oh sorry... I forgot, this thread DOES exist.... on MY forum...and directly addressed to Chris Tubb... not mithril... (sorry for the sarcasm.. but this is true) and sorry to say but THIS was not my idea but Chris idea who asked me to host those polls on MMP forum... not here... because the official mithril board.. is a passive board - not to say dead board - except for GF purpose...
I'm not the only one who cares or understands ... there are lots of others...
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 8, 2010 20:24:15 GMT
well I've said enough... I'll let other speak for themselves.... and i'll wait for Lars to post an answer... I don't want to grow more "ill" with this problem than I am right now
|
|
|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 9, 2010 0:05:29 GMT
Yes, Tolwen explains it all quite clearly. I understand now.
It's a mistake to boycott suggesting and voting. As influential as you are, not everyone is going to see things the same way Gildor. Some will suggest and vote regardless. Silencing your supporters merely empowers the others. Personally, I don't think you can resist the temptation to vote. And I hope you do. Don't get "ill" over such matters. Get better! ;D
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 9, 2010 11:22:11 GMT
well it is like in real life Grond...when you go on strike because you are not happy with what those who govern you do... you risk your income, you risk your job some times in order to make yourself heard in the only way that could affect those who take the decisions...
there are always people who don't participate in strikes this is democracy... but it the strike is not done, nothing would change... people would remain "happy", and deciders would not change anything...
Now I try to get some changes.. at least answers.... what other interaction that "touches" mithril do we have, except the Gold Fellowship in which we have some power? by suggesting and voting... this can be quantified
I mean.. I doubt the suggestion will cease and the vote too... but if, at the end of the vote, the results show there are ONLY 5 or 6 people who votes (as opposed to the regular fourty or so...) this quantifies the strike....
indeed we could make another poll about "are you happy or not with mithril current politics"... but what would this poll change? Mithril would not worry at all.... because things would carry on the same way no matter our insatisfaction grows....
now, if GF looses credibility because of lacks of votes... this affect Mithril because they can't sell... indeed we can't buy...
but the point is... they CAN'T sell... would it kill mithril.... maybe.... if they don't have plan to do anything else than GF in the end and "reveal their "TRUE FANA".... but well, if it happens that means we were completly wrong in BELIEVING things would change and keep spending money or support or dedication to "empty causes"...
We all need FACTS, not "empty announcements" never followed by any actions... like in the past
Once again... i don't do it for myself.... You want a scoop? well, I can't use my left arm anymore at the moment... and I don't know if I'll ever be able to paint again... and I still have hundreds of mithril waiting for painting.. I may not be able to paint anymore...
Still, I dedicate this to all mithril fans...
|
|
|
Post by gilgaladtolkien on Nov 9, 2010 11:22:48 GMT
I suggest
King Theoden of Rohan at the Hornburg but if the Fell-Beast will be accepted, i will support that suggestion.
|
|
|
Post by fulvio on Nov 9, 2010 14:22:19 GMT
I am a serious (maybe a bit TOO serious) miniature collector and "historian" of the old golden age of RPG and minis games. I have an HUGE complete collection of mint pieces from Ral partha, Martian Metals, Grenadier, RAFM and Mithril. Note that these manufacturers are ALL dead (except for Mithril) on "new" productions, they sell only old recast pieces (back to the late '70) and ONLY on line.
I may understand that PA has some problems selling in the actual market and i suspect that the production will become soon "on line" only, and thus the importance of the Fellowship as a sure pool of buyers
Mr. Thubb has produced very few pieces for other manufacturers. The only miniatures that i know modeled by Mr. Thubb out of the Mithril range are the very beautifull Grubs spaceships produced for the ICE now dead Silent Death game and cast by RAFM in 1994. They are leaf-like spaceships and may easily been mistaken for an elf pin.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 9, 2010 16:30:52 GMT
well I agree with you fulvio... if that's what you mean... we say the same thing : Mithril has to adapt to the market if it wants to survive...
if meant to sell online only then ok , that's one of the suggestions, but making it "gold fellowship" only is not the solution. Lately the gold fellowship is rather turning into a "fellowship of people who have gold (to spend)"
as for Chris Tubb production they are very numerous, he worked for many companies... historical mainly, but also fantasy... in 32mm or 54mm
still this is off-topic
(i know people would say my arguments and boycot are also off topic but I doubt so....)
|
|
|
Post by fulvio on Nov 9, 2010 16:50:11 GMT
QUOTE: "as for Chris Tubb production they are very numerous, he worked for many companies... historical mainly, but also fantasy... in 32mm or 54mm"
Yes, even a sci-fi range of beautifull post apocaliptyc thugs, but all except the ICE Grubs was produced for Prince August.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 9, 2010 17:37:40 GMT
the post apocaliptic thugs were of of the brand "Bitume", which lead to the creation of Mithril eventually... but there have been works for Grenadier too
|
|
|
Post by bombadil1963 on Nov 9, 2010 19:03:37 GMT
Well, I see it in a very simple way: if Mithril doesn`t want to move, they should be moved. It´s up to the company to give a sign in which way the train is rolling. I think a boycott is not the only or perhaps even the wrong way but I understand Gildor´s and many other´s anger. Are we mighty enough customers or are we only useful idiots for Mithril?
|
|
|
Post by bombadil1963 on Nov 9, 2010 19:41:37 GMT
And @grond: These Ents are made for healing not for destroying.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 9, 2010 19:54:11 GMT
any other suggestions to "move" Mithril are welcome master Iarwain, but mail "harrassment" was done before... by me, and by Chris... without any answers...
I am too far to go to Macroom to Mithril Factory and ask to see mister Edman face to face to discuss things... besides I don't have enough money to afford me ... a trip to Ireland at the moment... I'd prefer to visit Chris in London, if choice was to be made
|
|
|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 9, 2010 22:34:41 GMT
Sorry to hear about your arm Gildor. I hope you regain full use of it very soon. Remember when I said we would all learn something from this experience? I know now there are five knights in shining armor, and one wields a keen sword! I await approval from the brass to launch my suggestion. If allowed, it should be interesting to see how members receive it. It will certainly give everyone something to chew on… BUWAHAHAHAHAAAA! You’ll get the pun if it’s approved!And if that doesn‘t work, someone might as well toss Mauhur or the Warg Leader out there again. I mean if only a few people decide to vote this month, there’s a good chance one of them might make it this time. I noticed Shadyt’s Troll Champion is back (how shrewd). And let’s not forget Milo’s wonderful Fell Beast. I certainly hope it gets the thumbs up! I like ddaines' marsh phantom idea (pondered it myself but he beat me to it). I’m also glad that there is a flip side to the coin: There is a Thorin, a Thorongil, a Beechbone, and even a Lord Denethor II engulfed in flames! I must say the latter image is most haunting of late. Let’s see what happens!
|
|
|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 9, 2010 23:04:44 GMT
And @grond: These Ents are made for healing not for destroying. Sure, sure, march on if you must.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 9, 2010 23:41:13 GMT
next move :
I'd like my own suggestion to be removed from final choices.
so please, REMOVE "lurking Gollum" from the suggestions this month... Thanks
if others want to do the same, they're free.... but I repeat, this is my choice, this is my decision I don't force it upon ANYbody.
Now I can only assure that if answers or at least Aknowledgment of all this "affair" is not written very soon, I'll write articles to be published in many online AND real press that I know about, informing about all of this...
THIS is a desperate move from someone with very low leverage power who would prefer see mithril DEAD while it has still some "glory" even if tarnished... rather than slowly and painfully dying until nobody even remember it once existed at all....
make it a play of word, call it "the passion of the Christ(ophe)"
|
|
|
Post by fulvio on Nov 10, 2010 12:49:30 GMT
QUOTE: "THIS is a desperate move from someone with very low leverage power who would prefer see mithril DEAD while it has still some "glory" even if tarnished... rather than slowly and painfully dying until nobody even remember it once existed at all...."
...the same poor end of ICE, that is now a no more trusted on-line seller, after delaying pubblications and having an uge amount of unevaded customed orders. This is the risk of the market.
I suggest to cast new models unpacked and without the (very bad) primer to save expenses and to put them on the on-line order catalog only. We have addressed the primer issue previously, and apologised for the problem and offered replacements to anyone who wanted them. - Michael.
This make time of production very short and allow Mithril to have quickly the cash needed for any new productions. Runs numbers on the moulds may be done initially on demand, with some delay after collecting orders, and only after this on regular productions. This would not work or save significant time or money, the expense is not in the finishing of a release but the design and tool making. -- Michael.
I think we have not problems waiting some time after the pieces ordered are cast and shipped, but at least we are sure to have them.
Note that this is the policy of 2/3 of the IWM (old Ral Partha) on-line catalog. You order the pieces and wait that they are cast for you.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 10, 2010 13:01:44 GMT
the solution to all of this is for Mithril to completly change their politics :
abandon physical distribution of their miniatures and doing ONLINE sales only... this would prevent lots of contracts with distributors, they would be their own distributor. And then they invest in a FULL and Powerful dynamical website and spread word through ALL social networks all over the net
this also includes a translation of Mithril website into several languages (french, spanish and german to begin with)
THIS could bring LOTS of customers...
(well this has been suggested to Lars... times and times ago... still no answer)
I don't want mithril dead I assure you... but I want to open communication lines with Mithril... even if it requires Forceps...
|
|
|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 10, 2010 18:52:19 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]Nameless Thing[/glow]History: In the depths of Moria, far below any dwarven exploration, Gandalf glimpses the ancient creatures that chew (or perhaps burrow) through the very fabric of Middle-earth. Some say the “nameless things” were inadvertently responsible for the dark passages through which the wizard made his way. Gandalf: "Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he.“ THE TWO TOWERS Description: No physical description was provided by J.R.R. Tolkien; however, based on where they existed, and a single known habit, the following physical characteristics are possible: Creatures capable of constructing caverns and passages through which a man might travel would be substantial in size. For practical purposes, I would say an average specimen would be about the size of a bear (a 30mm bear). Due to the absence of light, their eyes (if they had any at all) would probably be very small. I imagine they relied more so on antennae or feelers for navigation, much like a centipede or catfish. As far as diet, who knows what they consumed at such depths. If they literally chewed the dirt and moved rock, it’s likely their mouths would have been filled with powerful teeth for grinding or perhaps even mandibles. Locomotion has many possibilities. The more I think about it, the more I picture the Nameless Thing as a multi-legged arthropod with segmented body. It makes sense that these creatures were bug-like, rather than animal, extracting minerals and such from inorganic material. However, since the realm of choices is wide open, I suggest that the Nameless Thing was a quadruped. And at the end of its feet were long, terrible claws used primarily for digging and tunneling. In fact, I will suggest that it was not bug-like at all but closely resembled a troll with feelers dangling from the sides of its mouth. It's hide was thick and leathery and covered with intermittent spines and large wart-like protrusions. In my drawing that I just submitted, the Nameless Thing is crouched on a boulder, squinting at Gandalf the White from a distance. Its claws are actually sunk into the rock upon which it is seated. Chris, of course, can run with it. He may use some of the drawing or none at all. The unique thing about the Nameless Thing is that no one really knows what it looked like. Chris will have total freedom to create whatever he likes! And we all know that Chris would do a fantastic job! Interesting Note: On the subject of these creatures, Gandalf says 'Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he.' (The Two Towers III 5, The White Rider). Sauron was older than the World itself, so this can't be literally true, unless Gandalf means to suggest that the nameless things are Maiar (which seems rather implausible). Nonetheless, it is clear that these are very ancient creatures indeed. More likely Tolkien just didn’t have time to expand on the idea. On the other hand, maybe Gandalf simply didn’t wish to trouble the fellowship any further with disturbing images of the underworld.
|
|
|
Post by fulvio on Nov 10, 2010 19:05:54 GMT
HA! HA! HA!!! You risk to go out of the licensing agreement and into pure heresy!
A beautifull image of a tentecled "nameless thing" is in page 12 of the "heretic" ICE module "MOUNT GUNDABAD". If this mini will be ever released, i may put them in my sci-fi alien creatures collection...
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 10, 2010 19:58:49 GMT
lol, Grond, you managed to suggest something that won't even need you to remove the suggestion it will be removed de facto I think good move, I applaud (no irony intended) Chris is happy to support the Nameless thing idea if it gets support, although what he considers these things to be will of course be his creative choice in the end. --- Michael.well since it seems, from some sure source that a Gold Fellowship boycot would instantly kill Mithril because this is actually their sole way of survival and no M regular will be released any time soon until the situation grows better (which I really wonder how it can grow better if nothing is done...) ... what Are we to do? I am still waiting to be answered by Lars about ALL my suggestions to solve the situation...
|
|
|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 10, 2010 20:26:30 GMT
Well, I said it would give you all something to "chew on". Before hosing down the forum with testosterone, I was trying to think of something new and refreshing to suggest. Please feel free to prod and poke. I have no shame and welcome both praise and ridicule. ;D Gildor, I neglected to mention earlier that your "Lurking Gollum" was a fine entry. Blast it! I don't know how I missed it. I guess I just assumed it was not to be counted, as you said you would not be voting at all. I am saddened that you wish to withdraw it now. The more competition the better!
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 10, 2010 22:28:37 GMT
I may resuggest it later... Now I try to focus on serious matters, I have been given HINTS of answers but alas not by Lars himself... I know mithril situation... and I have solutions to suggest... for god sake is it so hard to have an "audience" with Lars Edman to suggest things and work out solutions that can be taken by people who know how to implement them because it is their job...
that's ridiculous... I am no more that angry, and well the boycot is indeed not advancing things but COMMUNICATION is very needed
I wonder what the hell is Michael doing? it seems Lars is not aware of any of our suggestions according to Chris it is as if nothing had been suggested... Is Michael relying the mails ??
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 10, 2010 22:31:23 GMT
I even wonder if Michael reads this forum at all... I suppose not, or he would have tried to calm down things way before all this "arousing".... saying things like "you'll have an answer shortly" or things like that... but not even that...
I know you don't support our move Grond, but even yourself don't you find it odd that Mithril does not react at all about all of this??
I was offline for a few days due to the network being replaced. I have no problem with discussions on the forum, its a pity you hi-jacked the suggestion thread to do so. Was it beyond reason for you to start your own thread and deal with it there? Still I am reading this thread now and answering EVERY aspect I think I can. -- Michael.
|
|
|
Post by ungoliant on Nov 11, 2010 9:24:52 GMT
I may not support the move, but I am against no one. I actually admire your conviction. It takes guts to stand up to the machine.
I sent Michael an email a couple days ago. He answered and said,
"Our systems are a bit messed up lately as our network is being replaced so some disruptions in responding to emails may occur."
Sounds like HQ is experiencing technical difficulties. I think all anyone can do at this point is wait.
|
|
|
Post by Gildor on Nov 11, 2010 10:02:02 GMT
mmhh, but this is not email this is the board, so I assume he does not read the board or can't access it.... how odd... a webmaster who would not check and manage his own forum from home if not at job?
I don' know, other places other ways to work I suppose.... here we check forums (be they professional or personnal BOTH from our working places AND from our own internet connexion at home... this is the only way to animate and entertain the community all along)
|
|
|
Post by Michael O'Brien on Nov 11, 2010 11:30:33 GMT
I won't repeat extensively what I have said in the public forum but to sum up... enough is enough... I have already given a suggestion this month prior to the lately events... but I won't vote for anything not even my own suggestion... I call for a boycot of the MS (I know it is the SECOND time I do that but it seems some persones in charge at Mithril can't learn their lessons from the past and don't know HOW to listen to the community so... a sanction vote is the best thing I can submit at the moment... If you follow my motivations... I encourage you all NOT TO VOTE for anything when the vote begins... and in the months to come, if STILL nothing is done , I encourage to not submit either... it is only a "suggestion" of mine.. it is not in my power to force things upon anybody but EVERYBODY, long time collector or recent customers can see that the Gold Fellowship has become an excuse... not to release anything else... I encourage people to go in the PUBLIC forums for the Mithril WISHLISTS and create polls, and suggest there, and vote there for future releases... and until regular releases become REGULAR again, put the Gold Fellowhip on FULL standby... I DO think Mithril does not deserve OUR money if they take us all for fools by not addressing or not even answering to simple questions... I will address the issue to Chris Tubb himself and discuss with him about those events , suggesting him that he also delays his own production if he supports our motivations... which I know he does... regarding the regular releases... I may become a very annoying person for Prince August and mister Edman... but so be it... in two years of time, I can't understand how or why we have been treated like this... and please... don't fool us again : don't talk about time pressure and workload upon Chris shoulders!! I won't enter in details because I would break the confidence Chris put in me but I have PROOF it is pure LIE.... Please note that through all my bitterness and anger... I remain polite and respectful, as I like to act as a gentleman... and I am ready to regain my calm if dialogue options with a person in charge can be achieved... by person in charge I mean mister Lars Edman himself... not mister O'Brian... 1. Chris has been in touch about your 'comments'. 2. He has disagreed with all your points about any boycott, as you are not aware of the reasons for the production issues and are running on assumptions and pure emotion. 3. Any boycott will damage the future of Mithril. Mithril is NOT immune to being shut down. The Fellowship releases help keep it ticking over. 4. No company will put up with threats or blackmail, even 'suggestions' of such activities. 5. The forum is a tiny part of my responsibilities, as the vote does not start until tomorrow and I had a LOT of other things to prepare (including Mithril releases) I was not on for a few days. Our network was being rebuilt to improve it and make it more efficient, something we had planned for over 2 years. However it did cause some delays and issues that we had to address. I did not expect to log in to a stream of undeserved abuse and threats. 6. While we ALL would like more releases, it is simply not that simple. If we (lars, chris and myself) had magic wands that could grant every passing whim our collectors had we would try to do it. However instead we squeeze our budget to get what we can released. We have released figures YOU and your fellow collectors chose and voted on, we have the next M-series under mould design and the White Council will be released this month. The white council is a VERY complex piece that required a lot of work, as did the preparation and dismantling of our factory to cater for a Family Fun Day to encourage children to take up our hobby (which took our tool maker away from releases for 3 weeks). We are expanding our ways of communicating, and I try to respond to EMAILS to me (not just a pm on the forum.) I have always been polite and helpful where I can. If I post any news that fails to come to pass I am happy to address it and explain it as much as ANY company can. We announce news and updates via blogs, twitter, facebook, multiple newsletters, theminiaturespages website. I am solely in charge of doing that. Now I ask what right have you to publically deride me, and my boss, and call us liars, and use Chris WITHOUT his consent or knowledge or agreement to support your actions. Chris is in a different COUNTRY and is not aware of every issue that affects our decisions. We value all our customers, and as shown over 20 years, we have satisfied many many dreams and requests. I have personally helped MANY of our customers with inquiries, problems and questions in a timely fashion. If I cannot reply with the answer your want when you want that does not mean I have not tried to help, it means I cannot for many various reasons. I think I have responded to THIS post fairly. I will read the rest and respond in kind.
|
|
|
Post by Michael O'Brien on Nov 11, 2010 11:41:18 GMT
Well, this mentioned privilege is only the surface, isn´t it. I am NOT privileged if the only possibility to get a mithril-figure is to suggest, to wait, to wait and to buy for 20.00 Euros a single miniature. That means also, this miniature pleases me. If NOT, I have to wait and to wait and to wait. That means : NO miniature on my workbench in fact. I am surely NOT privileged. In other words: What does Mr. Edman do? He stops the normal range of miniatures, he gives us the ONLY possibilty to buy a figure for 20 Euros. Each month? Where is the figure for october? I have painted halforcs and rohan wariors in may 2009. Since then I am waiting to build a diorama. Since then the miniatures are flowing around eating dust. How long should I wait until I can fulfill my Helm´s Deep diorama? I WANT TO BUY MINIATURES !!!! I WANT TO PAINT THEM AND TO PUT THEM INTO A DIORAMA ! WHERE ARE THOSE MINIATURES !!! 1. All miniatures must pass Tolkien Enterprises laywers, this can take time or it can be a day. 2. We place 3 MS figures in the same spin mould as we are doing extemely limited editions now so this is more productive and saves us some costs that serve no purpose. Single figure spin moulds are only cost effective if making thousands of that figure not 150. This means we must wait until Chris sends us 3 figures, which can be time consuming as Chris may wish to do some minor adjustments on one, or a postal strike occurs, or our tool maker finds a problem and Chris wants to fix it. 3. We have one tool maker, and one spin caster, and they do other jobs as well. The White Council is a boxed set, NOT a MS, and its a priority this month, as members said they preferred to delay the Fellowship releases if we released general releases instead. So we do as YOU asked. 4. See we do address questions in a clear manner.
|
|
|
Post by Michael O'Brien on Nov 11, 2010 11:44:35 GMT
it is a matter of being respectful and polite master Grond... nothing less nothing more... now if you want to carry on being a sheep instead of a wolf..., that's like suggesting and voting... you are free to be so You statement of being respectful works both ways, you have been neither to your fellow collectors or us in these posts.
|
|