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Post by Michael O'Brien on Sept 24, 2010 13:04:56 GMT
The top 3 suggestions for the first round have been added to this round of voting. There are LOADS of votes that can be won with some heartfelt campaigning on behalf of the original posters of these excellent ideas.
You only have until the 30th of September to decide and this is an open vote so you can see the current status of the vote before you cast yours.
Please take a minute and use your vote wisely.
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tolwen
Mithril Captain
Posts: 65
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Post by tolwen on Sept 24, 2010 15:03:12 GMT
Alas my favourite did not make it! Well, hopefully at least there are enough who do not want another Troll Guthlaf shall ride!
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Post by barliman on Sept 24, 2010 15:33:55 GMT
It's Guthlaf for me too - I'm up to my ears in trolls!
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Post by pacofeanor on Sept 24, 2010 16:10:09 GMT
Hello, my vote for entombed balrog!! regards paco
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Post by fulvio on Sept 24, 2010 16:10:37 GMT
I vote for the troll: it is the only proposal in the 3 left that may have a dynamic use in RPG game.
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Post by pteratom on Sept 24, 2010 16:41:59 GMT
Well well well, it's so difficult to make a choice, like every mounth I have to say that i love trolls, but this time i vote for Balrog just for one reason: i think this is a real hard challenge for Chris, so i would like to see another difficult, great, piece of art!
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Post by bombadil1963 on Sept 24, 2010 18:20:56 GMT
Hey, Barli! I´m with you (concerning trolls): I´m fed up! But I would llllove to see a Balrog really fitting to our legendary 32mm size! But only because the wandering Noldo or the dwarf didn´t make it to the second round . . .
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Post by ungoliant on Sept 25, 2010 3:17:14 GMT
Thanks to imisel and ddaines! At least now I know something about Chernabog! I respect the point fulvio made earlier regarding his vision of the Balrog. His interpretation may very well be correct. However, I must clear something up. Based on what I just read, Chernabog was based on the Black God of Slavonic mythology and is apparently pagan, not Christian, in origin. The character was animated by Disney Animator Vladimir “Bill” Tytla in 1940. It is his interpretation of the mythological god that we see. Now it just so happens that subsequent images of the Balrog strongly resemble Tytla's fierce demon. In some cases the likeness is so uncanny, I jokingly suggested that Disney had a Balrog in their collection of cute and loveable characters. Of course Tolkien's Balrog is a totally different character, but a demon nevertheless. This is likely why people envision it with all the stereotypical characteristics of its kind. That is to say, since it's big, supernatural and evil, and there are flames associated with it, it must also have wings, horns and a tail. It's an old formula, but it works.
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Post by estel on Sept 25, 2010 9:18:20 GMT
better to have another troll fitting this nice angus mcbride cover instead of havin' something chris had so many problems designing some time ago and where so many debates were about. i am sorry, that guthlaf seems to have no real chance. sorry, because this is the only named character in this round.
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Post by ungoliant on Sept 25, 2010 16:12:27 GMT
It's even better when you allow old wounds to heal.
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Post by Gildor on Sept 25, 2010 18:54:20 GMT
well the balrog may not be named it is a "character" too Estel, well indeed there are several of them so he is not unique, but there are not many Maiar in the Mithril Range (except for a quite huge number of Gandalfs ) I'm interested in this challenge of the Balrog, I really wonder how Chris could do it to match the MB300 which clearly has not the same scale, even with wing folded... Still I am sure that Chris would be glad to have this challenge, and I'm sure the result will be great. Now though, I can't imagine a Balrog smaller than the m307 Stone Giant... A troll may be a bit small even if knelt down. I fully support this Balrog idea anyway (even if in the end I suppose this figurine will have the price of a mounted or double figurine I think...)
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Post by karalx on Sept 27, 2010 8:14:20 GMT
It would be a very nice mini... entombed Balrog !
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Post by Axel on Sept 27, 2010 12:03:39 GMT
So the Balrog, it is (unless 10 new voters show up and are all of the same mind).
Now this is a piece that really challenges Chris skill. I am looking forward to it.
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Post by estel on Sept 27, 2010 15:33:22 GMT
Could all of you supporters imagine how expensive a GF/MS Balrog will be compared to the large boxed set full of heavy metal? This Balrog is an absolute masterpiece to me and the price is worth and o.k. So I am still critical about another Balrog......
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Post by fulvio on Sept 27, 2010 18:06:02 GMT
I see only 2 way to produce this item:
1) Alternate scale piece - same figure of the large Balrog in a new pose but at a smaller scale than the classic 32mm boxed set.
2) Alternate figure - a completely different small Balrog figure in a new pose.
In the option (1) we don't have a figure truly compatible with the M range, but in the option (2) we have a figure full compatible but not dynamic: this mean that we need also a new attacking small Balrog w/wip and sword (in addition to the frozen and kneeling one) that becomes the new "official" Balrog.
I think that a 3rd option, the full scale Balrog kneeling and frozen is unavailable in MS range, because the model may reach easily the dimension of the Mumak miniature.
I also have some doubt on the fact that the Balrog was frozen before his release: he was imprisoned in the caves and tunnels after the collapse of the Thangorodrim, but was free of move inside them (maybe a bit bored, but not frozen...)
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Post by ungoliant on Sept 28, 2010 3:20:08 GMT
The Balrog I envision is cast in one or perhaps two pieces at the most. That’s because it’s crouching, and its wings encase most of its frame. Its arms are folded in front of its knees, which are together, while its feet are positioned side by side. Furthermore, the chin of the Balrog is tucked in behind its folded arms, so that only its brow, eyes and nose are visible. I’m trying to describe a compact and motionless figure here, much like a sleeping bat. There is no visible sword or whip either. This demon is clearly at rest. The overall size will appear to be half that of the current Balrog, while complexity, including the number of parts, is minimized. Keep in mind that Chris will sculpt the Balrog in the most practical and impressive way possible. He will likely create something very different from the description above. Regardless of the approach, I’m sure the finished product will be astounding! Speaking of astounding, I can't believe we have the support of the High-elf Gildor. My orc generals have jumped out of their boots! It would seem we can agree on some things after all!
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Post by bombadil1963 on Sept 28, 2010 17:03:02 GMT
Hrrmm, you even have the support of the Eldest not only the High-Elf´s. Elder than those fire-handling Maiar-kiddies and all. But as you said: the agreement is (only) on some things! The size you have suggested is much more than I see him! Take one-and-a-half-troll-size, then picture him kneeling. With wingtips or -claws, perhaps some tiny horns! I hope he will then only have 3/4 of a Troll-size!
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Post by ungoliant on Sept 29, 2010 6:41:59 GMT
We welcome and give thanks to the benevolent spirit of the forest! I've no idea how tall the current Balrog is. I've only seen photos, and, I must admit, it does appear a bit oversized. Based on the pictures I've seen, I've often wondered why it didn't simply disembowel Gandalf with its big toe. In my opinion, the Balrog should stand about the same height as the Stone Giant but carry more muscle mass. In a crouching position, it would definitely be shorter (excluding wing tips) than an upright troll. Yes, "one-and-a-half-troll-size" standing sounds about right Roland. I think we are in agreement regarding scale. Naturally, Chris will make the final determination. Hah! Please excuse my presumptuousness! I speak as though the battle is already won. Votes are still coming in, and the competition gathers steam. Victory will be declared only after the opposition has been utterly crushed and respectfully buried. Strength to Rohan! Onward Champion of Trolls! Bring forth the voters! The Balrog awaits!
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Post by fulvio on Sept 29, 2010 11:56:33 GMT
The true problem is how to make this miniature fully compatible with the "old" classic huge Balrog...
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Post by ungoliant on Sept 29, 2010 19:04:44 GMT
Consistency is definitely important. Chris apparently perceives the Balrog as a much larger character. He may decide to maintain the Balrog’s towering-scale. Isn’t the Razarac a kind of Balrog? It appears much smaller than the Moria version. I actually like the Razarac better but was never crazy about its Mr. Olympia pose. Food for thought: Gandalf and Saruman were Maiar spirits. Great and powerful beings, yet they were limited to the form of old men. Balrogs were likewise Maiar spirits. What exactly determined their physical form? Readings would have you believe that they were transformed into terrible demons after being consumed by hatred and wrath. If so, how was it that another servant of Morgoth - The Lord of The Rings - appeared both fair of aspect and form? It wasn’t until much later that Sauron's appearance grew hateful, though never did he look demonic. It should also be noted that Saruman’s focus on greed, lust, and terrible deeds never transformed him into anything but an old vagabond. And his pitiful form was dispatched by a dagger across the throat. One might argue that the Maiar’s level of power determined its actual shape. Well, I always considered Gandalf and the Balrog an even match. It's interesting how they turned out so differently.
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Post by fulvio on Sept 30, 2010 11:54:36 GMT
The Balrog is a true spirit of fire, exactly like Arien, the beautifull maiden that become the Sun Bearer in the Silmarillon. When Arien dropped his elf-like body, she was pure flame. Mayar may have any body they want, only after some damage of his own spirit (phisical or psycological) they are unable to change shape (see the Sauron's black and burned body or Sharkey) or to have a new body after losing it.
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Post by Gildor on Sept 30, 2010 16:29:20 GMT
to freeze a spirit of fire is quite difficult, and below ground is even harder (usually the more you go deep below ground the more the temperature raises...) I know this figurine may be expensive in the end... but sometimes masterpieces are worth the price and nobody is obliged to buy them right away or buy it at all actually
it's the same with the Sauron / Gil-Galad / Elendil was released (and remains one of the most expensive sets produced by Mithril) ... Still, no matter the price, the idea was supported because it was original... (indeed we had no idea how much it would cost at that time...)
considering fulvio options.. I'd prefer option 2 over option 1.... having a scale problem may indeed be a bad problem...
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Post by ungoliant on Sept 30, 2010 22:20:04 GMT
So, the Istari chose the form of old men. Sauron selected a charismatic elf form. Ungoliant, for some strange reason, desired the shape of a monstrous spider. Men, elves, and spiders are all recognizable life forms in Middle Earth. Let’s assume that all Balrogs looked more or less the same: they were huge and hulking man-like creatures with streaming manes of fire, surrounded by shadow (there‘s no reason to assume otherwise). What was the fire spirit’s inspiration for this physical form? Was its shape based on a preexisting creature, a supernatural being, or was it unique, derived from the spirit’s psyche? If the latter is the case, that would imply that all fire spirits share exactly the same thought process. I doubt there’s any literature on the subject by Tolkien. I was just curious to see what others might think about it. Thanks for the input fulvio.
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Post by ungoliant on Oct 1, 2010 0:00:10 GMT
O.H.C. reports the following:
Though the wind is no longer at his back, Guthlaf defiantly pushes onward. Loyal supporters continue to trickle in.
The renegade troll falters in his tracks. Without guidance, the mindless mass of muscle stares at his feet…like a dying elm. Shall we cut him down my lord?
Instructions:
When the fingers of the Balrog’s whip find Guthlaf’s throat, and its fiery blade slices through Guthlaf’s flesh, like a hot knife through butter, collect Rohan’s standard. It will serve as kindling for the Orc War Machine!
As for the Troll Champion of the North, he is not to be harmed. Have him shackled and brought to our rehab center. The troll is to be reconditioned and recirculated!
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