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Post by wvberghe on Dec 1, 2006 17:31:18 GMT
It's the Gate for me. Be I would like to see it as an almost finished gate, with Celebrimbor and Narvi. Gildor's proposal is great!
Moria, Moria, Moria,...
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Post by Wendy on Dec 1, 2006 18:05:49 GMT
Ah, poor Dain and Brand...
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Post by bombadil1963 on Dec 1, 2006 18:48:24 GMT
Can anybody quote the reference for mounted female rangers in one of J.R.R. Tolkien´s books, please? I´m only curious. Perhaps I have forgotten about that fact in the last 27 years . . .
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Post by Gildor on Dec 1, 2006 20:40:43 GMT
Well that's easy bombadil, there are none... but there are no female ranger afoot either if you look about it... I don't think that this choice of figurine has something to do with the books. There is no proof there is female rangers in Tolkien writings, but there is no proof of the contrary neither
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Post by Wendy on Dec 1, 2006 22:06:16 GMT
Hehe...all the suggestions have issues. ;D There were no female rangers...it's a MERP creation. The gate if sculpted as described in the text would be a blank piece of cliff. Who knows if Brand and Dain ever fought back to back?
All pretty even, really...
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Post by bombadil1963 on Dec 1, 2006 22:53:08 GMT
A wonder happened! Now I remember again! I know that! And I always did! Oh, yes! It´s the same with signs, letters and lines of the gate! If visible, invisible, touchable or not, half-, full- or new-moonlighted . . . . For all those who are more papal than the Pope himself, talking about being true to the books and these things: [glow=red,2,300] "Live and let live!" as we say over here . . . [/glow] I will be happy with that girl or woman on a horse if she wins, although she isn´t mentioned in the books. Other people might say that she has no right to come out here.
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Post by Axel on Dec 2, 2006 7:04:56 GMT
>Can anybody quote the reference for mounted female rangers in one >of J.R.R. Tolkien´s books, please? I´m only curious.
Ok, in defense of her authenticity... Lets see what we know about her. The Dunadan of the North are the remnants of the realm of Arnor, or rather its last remnant, Arthedain. The realm fell to the attacks of the Witchking, based in Gundabad, around 1000 years before the events described in the Hobbit and LoTR. We know that some Dunedain where raised in Rivendell, though that was an exceptional case. By conclusion this means that we have a pretty stable group who lives in the otherwise uncivilized areas of the former realm of Arnor. They are used to go hunting for the "dark" creatues, ranging far and wide in an very large area. Looking at the other descriptions of Numenorean and Dunadan culture, eg. the Siege of Minas Tirith, it seems that females and children are kept largely protected and out of harm. Thus, a female ranger is certainly not the norm. Dunadan can also be rather stubborn, so it is highly likely that in 1000 years of history the odd female of that northern breed would take up arms and go out hunting for a while. During the war of the rings Aragorn called upon the Rangers to overextend their tasks for the need of help - if there is any time in which a martially inclined female takes up her arms, too, then its now.
Apart from those going out "ranging" there also were most certainly also many incidents in these 1000 years where females were forced to protect their homestead, with the males out on one of their trips.
So in summary, while female rangers where not the norm, Tolkien does offers us a culture that will have produced some of them. Creating one does not bend its creation like, lets say, an Ork commanding the hosts of Minas Ithil.
But, more important: the female ranger already exists, and it is the epitome of collecting Mithrils. Making this character available again is a worthy task for the "Mithril fellowship". This, however, can happen this month or one of the next. There is no need to hurry.
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Post by Gildor on Dec 2, 2006 21:48:40 GMT
Actually I have nothing against female ranger at all, but I just wanted to quote that besides Eowyn, there is no female who "fights" or "take the arms" in the whole Tolkien work. It is said somewhere that Tolkien was quite old-fashionned about the place of women in society, that's why women are quite never mentionned in all the Tolkien genealogies (except for some princesses and the hobbit females) Even the children of King Elessar are : Eldarion and... three daughters... (worthless as Tolkien would think)
I remember that EVEN Luthien... danced before Melkor to divert him while Beren was trying to steal the silmarils... She never fought at all... Same with Nienor and Turin...Gilraen fled with Aragorn but did not fight or even tried to fight at all to protect her child. Women are all "fragile" in Tolkien World... Except for Eowyn... and maybe Galadriel, but elven society is a bit different... and we don't know exactly what Galadriel did at Dol Guldur.
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Post by bombadil1963 on Dec 2, 2006 22:45:14 GMT
I am not convinced. Sorry!
It is said that the Dunedain are descendants of a warlike race of old. This is true. But even in their most heroic times in the First Age only one woman has taken the arms to fight: Haleth of the Haladin of Brethil! Some other fellows are referring even to Tolkien´s inspiring sources: old norvegian and anglo-saxon, means northern Germanic, myths and sagas! But also the Finnish Kalevala. It is right that he was influenced by these mostly bloody sometimes even cruel stories. And: yes, these northern people were the model for the House of Beor, the House of Hador and Haleth´s People. The name "Valkyries" was mentioned in another forum as a proof for warlike women. But: they didn´t fight! They were "spirits" that accompanied dead warriors to Asgard, the home of the Gods!
Ancient Roman soldiers got to know real Germanic women during and after battles and later their behaviour was written down: they sent back their fleeing men back to battle, knowing that it was lost. Then they ran towards the forwarding enemy, ripping their clothes off, with blank breasts, willing to die. Others killed their children and then comitted suicide, living and dying according to the maxim: "Lever dot as slav!" ("Better being dead than a slave!").
But they did never fight! Neither in history nor in the Sagas!
And there are many other reasons why female rangers are not imaginable due to J.R.R. Tolkien´s convincings!
But we can have her as a MERP-like-invention, like all the other figthing women. That does not disturb anybody!
Greetings to mmp-forum! I won´t repeat it there . . .
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Post by barliman on Dec 3, 2006 8:21:58 GMT
...Meanwhile, back to the main plot, and I notice that at the moment extending the vote by another four days hasn't (thus far) helped at all - the Female Ranger and the Gate are STILL neck and neck (or would be if gates had necks...)!
Wasn't it originally said that Chris would have the final say in the case of a draw? It certainly looks like it may come down to that yet!
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Post by Gildor on Dec 3, 2006 12:45:11 GMT
well let's look at the positive aspect of all of this... This month there is a real debate and real suspence as to who will win and there are defenders for both favorites now that's a voting (still, not enough voters though
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Post by Axel on Dec 3, 2006 17:52:51 GMT
It would be great if this month would yield two victors. Alas, thats scheduled for the next one...
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Post by twrich on Dec 3, 2006 21:06:30 GMT
Or . . . Perhaps Mithril could declare both as winners, and have the vote next month be for one not two figures?
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