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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2005 13:55:27 GMT
I have received the newsletter about "Designer Mithril" right now.
What are my feelings concerning this offer ?
Honestly, I'm bitterly disappointed by what I think to be a drift to a highly commercial policy.
It seems to be a greedy attempt to turn the fans' love for your miniatures to account.
I know Chris Tubb must be paid for his work but honestly 2680 euros !!!
Who can pay such a cost for miniatures ? Nobody but the wealthiest fans and speculators...
You know the only way to get part of this cost back is to auction most of the 30 miniatures.
I guess each of these 30 miniatures not to be available under 100/150 euros at least.
So, most of the fans won't be able to purchase those miniatures and you can guess the disappointment they would feel. So would I...
I would have prefered a sort of contest of ideas and designers.
You would have launched a new series of 10 or 15 miniatures (why not called "a series made by and for our fans"), each model to be a fan's model chosen amongst all the proposals.
This would have been a way to thank your most loyal fans, who are not necessarily wealthy or speculators.
To conclude I'd say the idea to involve the fans in designing the miniatures is very, very good, but the way is very, very disappointing...
Emrys
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Post by Zoetrop on Mar 4, 2005 14:31:25 GMT
Hello Emrys, The price of 2680 Euros is ok. I can´t pay it  , but if you think about the work that Mithril have with it..... If Chris needs 30 hours, that will cost approximatelly 1200 Euros - only to design the figurine. This is a typical problem if you cast only some figurines (30). Michael: What kind of mould did the buyer get from Mithril? Is it possible to cast more than 30 figurines? If yes - what does it cost if the buyer want 500 figurines? |
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Post by Tibbo76 on Mar 4, 2005 15:30:07 GMT
Ok, to design a figure you ever dreamed of is facinating. I paid a lot of money for my miniatures but 2680 Euro is definitely way to much even if you get 30 miniatures plus master. But by the way, where can I get this GREAT EOTHEOD RANGER?  |
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Post by Shadyt on Mar 4, 2005 16:04:17 GMT
Since the designer miniatures come with a mold that can probably produce several hundred miniatures, and many collectors pay over 10 Euros for miniatures, it is not an unreasonable amount. The miniatures will always be rare because Mithril produces multiple molds of their production miniatures instead of just one. I would not be surprised if you could auction these rare minis on ebay for over 20-30 Euros each.
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Post by mb on Mar 4, 2005 18:59:22 GMT
I agree with Emrys. I feel that a contest would be a much better idea then just offering special figures to people who are rich enough. Many long time Mithril fans, who have invested a lot of time, money, and passion towards the Mithril series will not be able to afford this offer. I live in America, and it would cost me about 4,000-5,000 US dollars.  I feel that if Mithril offered a contest, taking design ideas from all fans, and producing 5 or so of the most creative ideas, and having the figures availiable to everyone, would be a much better idea. On the packs, have the name of the person who came up with the design, giving that person long lasting credit. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2005 19:17:19 GMT
I agree with you both Zoetrop and Shadyt : designer mithril offer could cost a reasonable price if you were able to produce hundreds of miniatures from your mould...
but don't forget...
1-Mithril Miniatures society isn't allowed to sell Tolkien moulds due to licence restrictions (you can read it in FAQ section and on this forum).
So I guess this mould can't produce more than these 30 already cast miniatures...
2-If it could cast hundreds more miniatures, could you sell those miniatures without to face Tolkien Enterprises' wrath ? I think you have no licence, have you?
Mickael, please clear these points...
Emrys
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Post by Mithrandir on Mar 4, 2005 21:26:51 GMT
I was also curious about how the licensing would work. Maybe the designer figures will be officially named "Generic Raven-haired Elf Maiden," and we'd just have to understand amongst ourselves that the figure is Luthien, for example.
As a way to get around the cost, it had occurred to me that we could try a kind of group buy over at Many Mithril Pages. Up to 30 interested people would pay in, and we'd split the finished figures among us.
A couple problems with this idea: Who would keep the mould? Can't really split that 30 ways.
A more obvious problem is this. Could 30 people decide upon a single figure? Luthien seems to be an obvious choice, or maybe Sauron the Fair (although he doesn't appear in LOTR or the Hobbit). But I wonder if 30 people could agree enthusiastically enough on any idea to put their money up, especially if the agreed upon figure happens to be their third or fourth choice.
Marc
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Post by mb on Mar 4, 2005 22:20:41 GMT
That's a great idea, Mithrandir, splitting the cost 30 ways. I would certainly be interested. And as far as the issue with the mould goes, the fairest way would most likely be to have a drawing for it. Put all 30 names in a hat, and draw a name. I think that would be fair enough. Even if you couldn't find 30 people to split the costs, having 15 people split the difference would be a lot cheaper then paying the whole 2680 euros. Then people would have 2 figures each, and they could possibly trade for someone else's "Designer" Mithril figure. (just an idea).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2005 0:51:54 GMT
Why not allow collectors & fans to design standard range figures in collaboration with Chris. That way Chris gets a break from having to think of and create everything (there must be a limit even to his fertile imagination), fresh ideas never harm anyone, Chris sculpts of course. I believe that would truly promote the Mithril 'family' feeling.
Sadly a lot of things seem to be aimed at the collectors market and those who can afford to say "look what I've got, and you can't have it"!!! - see Sidehow/WETA's LotR range as an example. LotR is too big for just a small proportion of the wealthier population of this planet.
Overall I don't think the way ahead is the best choice, already I'm thinking the sample figure shown is a smashing figure but will I ever have the chance to own one? Probably not.
Come on Mithril, keep your beautiful figures available for all to enjoy, not just a select few who will probably never even paint the figure.
DCD
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Post by Gildor on Mar 7, 2005 17:59:14 GMT
I think that the idea of letting people help in designing figurines is cool but allow people to buy their own designed figurine for such an expensive price does not seem reasonnable.
The price may be reasonnable but not the concept of it at the end and I see many reasons to that.
I have been a Mithril fan for more than 10 years, and a Tolkien fan for even more than that. It took me years to complete a full collection of the Mithril range and still now Mithril would plan to make figurines so precious that even the famous M16 or the very early xmas figures would seem a ridiculous prize in a collection.
Making these figurines referenced in the M series which is supposed to be a "common" series is not a good idea according to me. Fans or collectors who wish to "fill" any holes in a collection could not get them all anyway... there should be a special range for these series if this comes to be released someway.
On the other hand, with this "politic", does Mithril clearly mean that if you have the money you can buy anything? why not paying to have an Aragorn fighting with Sting, or Gimli wielding a bow? Also, people who will pay... will mostly want special figurines, Personnalities most certainly, and why not, some that are outside the Tolkien Enterprise Licence... so in the end Mithril would be forced to refuse, and that means that even if you pay a little fortune you can't really have what you want so bad... (example : Tuor in Gondolin, Hurin in Angband...) And I doubt tolkien entreprise nor tolkien estate would approve that anybody could buy the right to "make a representation" of the tolkien work... (Look at what happend to ICE). The estate can be very nasty about that...
Finally, such a price for ONLY 30 figurines is not really correct I think, the best idea, in the end would be to allow people to pay if they want to participate (but not have the final word) on the elaboration of a figurine, and sell these figurines on a limited range (let's say 1000 of each) series like it was the case for the LR series... but definitly not in the M series...
well, i know it is a long post and I think I'll get an answer from many people. as I feel really concerned both as a Mithril collectionner AND painter... I do not collect them only to be proud...
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Post by Michael O'Brien on Mar 8, 2005 11:23:43 GMT
Wow, this experiment sure got the forum buzzing. We put the idea out there and will adapt it where possible. We can make far more than 30 if that is what the collector(s) wants, we will not break our license so there will be limits to what we can do but we will do our best to accommodate. The mould will not be used to cast anymore figures and will be given as proof of this to the collector, it will be marked or broken to prevent further casting outside Mithril. It is supposed to be a part of a collection not act as a continuing production mould. It will be a spincast not a hand cast mould. As I said we put the idea out there, it can be adapted to accomodate collectors and we did not intend any insult or offense to our fans. We are just trying new ideas out. We thank you for the feedback and keep it up. I have shown it to Chris and Lars so your comments are striking a note. Happy St Pats Day by the way. |
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Post by Tibbo76 on Mar 8, 2005 12:24:29 GMT
On the other hand, with this "politic", does Mithril clearly mean that if you have the money you can buy anything? You can indeed buy a lot of things if you are rich enough, but you will definitely badly disappoint most of the mithril community. I agree, this is the wrong way! be to allow people to pay if they want to participate (but not have the final word) on the elaboration of a figurine, and sell these figurines on a limited range (let's say 1000 of each) series like it was the case for the LR series... but definitly not in the M series... I thought about this fact. Good argue. But as Michael told Mithril wants to test "new ideas" and not to take up an old range. I think with respect to this that the collector models should in general released in the LR range and not as an MX4whatever as the LR range was started with the aim to produce 100 exklusive miniatures. Furthermore if every collector in the world would start to participate the costs would be split into parts . . . But that is too optimistic . . . And Michael, it is clear that Mithril do not want his fans to get rumble, as Mithril wants to reach a greater community for fascinating/getting interested in Tolkiens world. btw: St. pad at 17th of march? |
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Post by Shadyt on Mar 8, 2005 16:11:42 GMT
How many miniatures could the designer order? How would this effect the cost? I would want 300-400 if I was going to design one.
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Post by Michael O'Brien on Mar 9, 2005 10:47:33 GMT
btw: St. pad at 17th of march? I know that but since I will not be in on that day I wanted to wish everyone a happy day in advance. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2005 12:58:43 GMT
Happy St Pats Day by the way. Happy St Patrick's day to my beloved Irish people !!! Emrys, celtic cousin from Brittany. |
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Post by dreadlord on Mar 9, 2005 13:49:40 GMT
I have to say the principle behind the designer mithril is a good one but it needs to be refined. I agree with some of the points made that there should be a contest, the top 30 designs get produced - the winners get a presentation box of one of each of the thirty figures with certificates and perhaps a booklet of the 30 submitted designs, while everyone else can buy the figures in normal blisters but at a slightly higher price due to the scale of the work that would be involved. This would avoid the licencing issues and any vat issues if the designer where to sell figures on a large scale (in the original idea). Also Mithril would have control of the numbers produced and would regulate the price say €10 a figure limited to 500. Its just my thoughts, so mithril turn over a profit, the designs get there unique collectors edition while everyone else can still buy the figures.
If people had time they could design their own figures, make them out of expoxy to be compatible with the mithril range and get there own moulds professionally made. (I admit this would take a lot of time and skill but people could start with the simple things like weapons, furniture etc. and then work up to full figures. I'm sure peoples skills would improve a lot over 15 months).
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Post by gerold on Mar 9, 2005 15:14:52 GMT
Well, Chris and Mithril may do what they want of course, but I don't understand this new experiment.
I'm a Tolkien fan for more than 25 years and I collect figures even longer, no need to say Mithril was an exciting discovery for me and I have always loved these figures.
But all I want is to be able to get nice figures at a reasonable price, and if other people are also intrested and buy these figures, that's ok with me ! Shared pleasure is double pleasure. They enjoy my painted figures, I enjoy their dioramas and so on.
I am not intrested in having a figure at a very high cost so that I can say :'I am the only person in the world to have this figure and no one else.' That's kind of selfish isn't it ? I don't have any pleasure on that.
If I want to create my own figures, I can do some conversions, and everybody is free to do that.
Helping Chris with designing is a good idea, and if he takes my idea to create a figure, I would indeed be pleased to be able to say : 'Chris made this figure with my idea.' That would be a pleasure for me, and I would not have any problem to share the figure with the whole world.
So, if Chris does take the effort to design a figure, I would prefer he gives as much people the pleasure to enjoy his work, not only a few with a lot of money.
The choice is up to him.
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Post by Lars Edman on Mar 9, 2005 19:10:44 GMT
I have enjoyed reading your comments and I agree with all of them. Differen people collect for different reasons. Designer Mithril are aimed at people who get a kick from collecting and will pay €500 on Ebay for a M16 figure. Or would like to have the opportunity to trade 29 rare figures and get a tremendous satisfaction from this and still have one figure on the shelf. I am sorry that this game is not for everybody because of the money treshold. But why do you absolutely want this figure when there are so many other affordable figures in the range? Krgds Lars md. Mithril Miniatures  |
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Post by Lars Edman on Mar 9, 2005 19:22:30 GMT
Ok, to design a figure you ever dreamed of is facinating. I paid a lot of money for my miniatures but 2680 Euro is definitely way to much even if you get 30 miniatures plus master. But by the way, where can I get this GREAT EOTHEOD RANGER? Good news on the Ranger figure. The person has commisioned us to produce this special figure has asked for 150 figures. Mithril will produce them and sell for him. Krgds Lars md Mithril |
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Post by Gildor on Mar 14, 2005 15:55:39 GMT
I have enjoyed reading your comments and I agree with all of them. Differen people collect for different reasons. Designer Mithril are aimed at people who get a kick from collecting and will pay €500 on Ebay for a M16 figure. Or would like to have the opportunity to trade 29 rare figures and get a tremendous satisfaction from this and still have one figure on the shelf. I am sorry that this game is not for everybody because of the money treshold. But why do you absolutely want this figure when there are so many other affordable figures in the range? Krgds Lars md. Mithril Miniatures According to me there is a difference between 500€ and 2800€ or so... Mainly because of the rarity due to the date... there were not many M16 produced but by the time they were released they were not worth 500€ at all, and affordable by anybody... there is something about collecting and paying a price for something that is NO MORE available, and is rare because it is OLD and uncommon.... which is the case for many collections such as stamps, wines, postal cards, etc... but paying 2800€for something STILL to be MADE is not what i call collecting... Indeed Mithril touches many kinds of people, but also many kinds of collectors people. I was lucky enough to get my M16 for 30€ because i looked for it a lot and found good deal places... Unless Mithril thinks that its figurines are precious enough for true auction at Sothebies, I don't think this kind of "project" is a good one... Indeed that's just my opinion, anybody is free to think what he wants...  |
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Post by Mithrandir on Mar 16, 2005 5:18:37 GMT
Some of us from Many Mithril Pages are creating a Designer Mithril figure as a group. All Mithril fans are more than welcome to join us. We see this as a chance for the average collector to get involved with Designer Mithril. The more people we get, the less everybody has to pay. If you're interested, go to groups.yahoo.com/group/mmp_discussion/ for the details, and be sure to vote on your favorite miniature idea. Hope to see you there! Marc |
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Post by Michael O'Brien on Jun 20, 2005 15:59:40 GMT
MX421 Eotheod Ranger, is now available to buy.
Its available on the Designer Mithril page. ;D
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Post by jeff on Nov 5, 2006 1:50:39 GMT
i'll sell a M16 tomorrow on ebay.fr if someone is interested and ship worliwide.
Cu ++
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, but if you think about the work that Mithril have with it.....
I feel that if Mithril offered a contest, taking design ideas from all fans, and producing 5 or so of the most creative ideas, and having the figures availiable to everyone, would be a much better idea. On the packs, have the name of the person who came up with the design, giving that person long lasting credit. 
